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How did the phone in with 'Red Ken' go? Had a nice reply from him a little while ago, saying he is totally opposed to the whole scam and while there is a limit to how far he can get involved, he would do whatever he felt appropriate or possible to help. Better than old Caborn who got someone (probably one of Byers' ex spin doctors!) to do a 'dear sir, f**k off' reply! They did say that while they are fundamentally opposed to football franchising, it is for the football authorities to act - exactly what he said at the old commons debate. I thought that as an elected representative responsible for the area of sport, then he would be obliged to get involved, but there you go. Maybe WISA need to do a bit of cash-for-questions style stuff :)
Edinburgh Don
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 14:40:02 (PST)
A lot being said about the players who are out of contract, but can anyone justlfy keeping any of them? I know people are emotional about GA, especially on w&ww, but sadlt he is now injury prone and yet to play a full season in the time he has been here. You can't justify a contract on that record. It's a shame cos he is the only player other than Colin Hendry I've ever seen tackle with his head :0)
Ralph Malph
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 09:06:26 (PST)
WD - if it works it looks great if it doesn't it looks bad I think brighton fans may have had a poll as to if they were prepared to do it before they went ahead with it.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 08:58:09 (PST)
Paul, wouldnt it be great to do something on the similar lines as Brighton especially if it received good media coverage, but unfortunately I still feel that the apathy associated with our fans would make it so difficult for it to be successful (I could be wrong)
Wibbly Don
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 06:20:13 (PST)
Kris - I know you live their was just trying to link in a reason for a pub trip - Funny Dog and Bull story for you. (people who dont know it, it's a market traders pub in Croydon) about 10 years ago we were doing a christmas pub crawl prior to our crimbo party and someone said right next pub D&B we all said your having a laugh (we were all dressed up in suits) but the challenge had been set so we walked in and it was like one of them classic film sceens when all the regulars stopped and just looked at us we couldn't back out so it was a quick half and then we were out of their. :)
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 05:06:40 (PST)
Stu - hope I get in more more often than our Tone gets down your way :). Meeting CK - as Chair of WISA and more recntly as WISA rep on the WOOF Fans' Council. Last one as Chair of WISA was in a meeting including Merton Council and was..ooh, lets think, a while back now, late November maybe. It was that meeting which finally convinced me of the utter futility of talking to the man. Plough Lane is the obvious site for WFC which has never been properly investigated, but we'd be happy with somewhere "in or as near as possible to Merton". Paul - I live there, remember? Mind you, in the 4 and a half years I've lived there, I've been out for an evening in Croydon about half a dozen times if that. Not really my kind of place.
kris (chair@wisa.org.uk)
London, England - Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 04:59:28 (PST)
Whooops! Also, email yourlondon@bbc.co.uk now!
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 03:38:37 (PST)
Big ask from all Dons. Tonight is Ken Livingstone's regular monthly slot on BBC London, 94.9 FM. Please email him about the Plough Lane site and ask for his public support. They will be taking calls from 5 pm and he'll be live on air from 6.00 - Tel: 020 7224 2000
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 03:37:57 (PST)
Wibbly Don - Not a ramble. I know this was in the previous life of WISA but we once tried a walk in when Dublin was being discussed. I think we arranged it for about 10-15 minutes into the game and it looked like a group of people who had stayed in the pub for an extra beer. For it to work it really has to be cordinated well the best one I ever heard of was the Brighton one all the fans were told was their would be an event that would signal the start of the walk out. It was a night game and a series of rockets were sent into the air over the ground at that point the ground virtually emptyed. by the way I was reading the other day that Bill Archer the guy who was in charge at Brighton still owns 49% of the club but their's talk of a buyout including "Fat Boy Slim" and current chairman Dick Knight buying that out.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 03:31:07 (PST)
"Well obviously I'd prefer to play at Plough Lane. It is only 10 minutes from where I live, and it is where Wimbledon comes from"
Trond Andersen
In the players lounge after the Watford match, - Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 03:30:44 (PST)
Stuart, I did not say nor did I imply that you have to be a member of WISA to oppose MK, nor that you have to put in the hours to justify your membership. I merely stated that WISA was leading the fight and that it helps if people join because it increases membership and makes the org. more representative and increases the funds on which WISA can rely. What you suggest I infer is not what I stated - which was very clear. I do not see WISA as some kind of all-embracing arbiter of truth. I do see it as leading the campaign - that much is unarguable - and being a member (active or inactive) is helpful to the overall aims of the vast majority of WFC supporters.
The other thing is that I regard part of WISA's role as campaigning for the interests of ALL fans at the club, regardless of whether they are members. The useful thing if you ARE a member is that you can directly influence approach and policy and thus the campaign. My personal view is that regardless of whether you have blown up one balloon, written one letter, organised Fans United, or done ANYTHING at all to help in any way (WISA or not WISA related) to try to oppose the move, then you should feel part of the whole 'thing' and rightly give yourself a pat on the back. If anyone out there has done NOTHING whatsoever (very few I suspect) then their protestations are worth nothing whatsoever. I hope that people will stop questioning my motives and views on the matter as I have now stated it very clearly.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 03:24:01 (PST)
Just so everyone knows due to the amount of posts in the last few days I have cut back the size of the guestbook to speed up load times. This means that at the moment this page only goes back to the start of yesterday. If you want to read the previous posts dont forget to visit the history section by clicking here
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 03:21:49 (PST)
FWIW, I think WISA have done and are doing a great job and people like me need their guidance, (yes I do have a mind of my own) but it needs the likes of WISA to focus people in the right direction and not have everyone going off at a tangent,( what would it have looked like having a few black balloons rather than the thousands that we had, what about all the black Koppell T Shirts at Watford, get my drift,) rather than all the infighting that we have now albeit it appears to be mellowing, it would be nice if we generated all the pent up aggression and re directed it against the evil Charlie and the rest of the Nogs. Struart it may well be a 50/50 decision, is that not even more reason to get together and come up with positives against Charlie, it has been suggested previously what about a walkout or stay out and come in late, Christ that would be some effect but unless someone takes control it could never happen, look at Fans United, even although Koppell tried everything to make it fail because of the organisation it was in my mind a huge success (sorry for the ramblings Paul)
Wibbly Don
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 03:17:06 (PST)
One final point about WISA as I said yesterday, whatever your views on them, the way it is run etc etc they are the only chance we have of stopping Koppell and MK (unless someone starts a new group with more than 1500 members), nobody is forcing anyone to listen to them nor is anyone saying you have to be a member - the arguement is very simple - the more power WISA has the less chance Koppell has
Hutch
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 03:15:51 (PST)
Kris - Did your trip to our local town include a pub openning, prince charles always ends up in the Dog and Bull when he goes to Croydon :) Anyway yes I supose my comment was a bit blinkered it should of said "I believe WISA aren't talking to CK"
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 02:43:43 (PST)
Rich, not a problem mate. Unfortunatly at the moment internal fighting will occur just by the nature of the situation. It must be the worst time ever I have experienced being a Wimbledon Fan. Its strange, because we wait for a decision by a football league that could go in my opinion 50/50. I just want a decision one way or the other. I dont know about you, but this is the only topic I concentrate on and, I know people say 'how can you get excited or interested by whats hapening on the pitch'. Well at the moment thats the only excitement I get out of Wimbledon, so I will take it with both hands. I suppose thats why I feel so flat after the game, because I know I have another week of waiting for the result.
Stuart D (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 02:04:21 (PST)
Stuart : Sorry if the bit about the criticism of people coordinating the campaign read wrong as it was not aimed at you but a general impression i got by reading all of yesterdays posts. It just seemed to me there are some people who obviously support the cause but do not want to contribute simply because they have a problem with other dons fans. I do also realise that you used to work in the Club Shop and any stick aimed at you for that is completely out of order - it should not be an issue.
Rich
Earlsfield, - Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 01:52:39 (PST)
Rich, please quote me on where I slagged of people for giving up thier time to lead or co-ordinate the fight of MK?? See the problem I have sometimes, and I will openly admit it, is that I sometimes have a go at people who I just dont respect. Being in the position I was at the club shop and getting abuse every home games makes you fight your corner. I respect the majority of Committee members on the WISA committe, and Kris Stewart and Lou Carlton-Kelly and Lee Willett have been excellent to myself in particular and I am very confident of the fight with them in the driving seat. To me its about respect, its a two way thing.
Stuart D (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 01:29:40 (PST)
Kris, nice to see that you have come on to this guestbook. Its like the Prime Minister coming to my local town :-) I can full appriciate what you say abotu CK and you give a fair answer. Were the meetings with CK on a personal level or as the Chairman of WISA. When was the last meeting as a WISA Chairman held. Aslo is it possible to clear one point that has been bugging me. Are WISA only holding out for a return to Plough Lane, or Merton???
Stuart D (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 01:21:25 (PST)
Sorry Stuart but have a problem following that line of argument. In an open election, the best way to ensure a candidate you do not like is not elected is to vote for someone else rather than abstain. I do not think that anyone who chose not to vote is in any position to criticise the make up of the council ( i am not referring to you here as i do not know if you voted or not - but anyone holder who chose not to vote). Also,it is everybodies individual decision what organisations they join or what contributions they make to the fight against MK and nobody should be criticised or considered any less a fan whatever the level of their contribution is. However the constant criticism of who do choose to give up their time to lead and coordinate the campaign on behalf of all of us is getting really annoying.
Rich
Earlsfield, - Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 01:18:15 (PST)
I agree with you about meeting CK Ralph. I suppose as far as WISA are concerned a lot of water has gone under the bridge and they understandably dont think it is worth it. It would be nice if this opportunity could be used in a WOOF meeting to speak to CK. It would kill two birds with one stone, WISA and WOOF could speak to him at the same time. Just a thought.
Stuart D (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 01:17:02 (PST)
Ralph - it's a philosophical point - "what is a football club?". I believe that the term "WFC" includes you and me, Terry Burton and David Connolly, Andrew Judge and Roger Casale, as well as Koppel. Anyway, please believe me, I have talked to Koppel many, many times. And no matter how reasonable you are with him, he does not have any real choice about what he does. He has a job to do, and (presumably) is being paid to do that job - and that is to get the Milton Keynes nightmare accomplished. No matter how achievable a return to Plough Lane might be, he cannot look seriously at it. All he can do - and what he has done - is string us along while developing his plans to kill the club. If you can think of any good reason to talk to him, please tell me - I'm not dogmatic on this at all.
kris (chair@wisa.org.uk)
London, England - Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 01:16:15 (PST)
Kris - like it or not CK is the Club. He is the point of contact between the owners and us. He is in there to do their talking. If you don't talk to him you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. We may not like what he say's but unless he is talked too by rationale people, like yourself and not some of the 'clowns' who post on here, then what chance is there. Koppel out - nice idea - unlikely to happen though.
Ralph Malph
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 01:06:48 (PST)
Ronan, wouldnt the answer to the question of why only 700 people attended the WOOF election be the fact that most people knew already who would be the committe members????
It was an open secret as far as me and my mates were concerned. I could of given you 15 names of the favorites for the committe members.
Stuart D (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 00:51:20 (PST)
So BW, does that mean I have to be a member of WISA to fight MK??? Does that mean that half the season ticket holders are not intitled to an opinion. Is it a closed shop??? See thats what bugs me, it seems to me that unless you put loads of hours in per day for WISA on the MK fight, then you are classed as a lesser fans. Lets be fair about this, Without the majority, the WISA commitee members are nothing!! I, and many of my friends who are WISA memebers have other interests and other commitments. Others cant afford to pay for membership, to take time off work to fight the cause. Are they a lesser fan, because they dont fight activly or spend their money????
Stuart D (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
- Thursday, February 28, 2002 at 00:47:14 (PST)
RB QC, I was ignorant to the threat of Dublin myself, and I am extremely grateful for the work ANYONE did before I got involved. What I resent is the suggestions that there is some kind of 'party line'. There are agreed approaches as far as the cttee go - of course there are, you try running any campaigning organisation without a 'unity of purpose' (if you like) - but there is no arm twisting or expectation that people will 'fall into line' or anything like that. Stuart, please don't take offence mate, but it was a valid point, particularly as you have stated you're not a member and the conclusions you draw are clearly not the result of active membership - indeed membership of any kind at this point in time. As for your previous involvement with WISA, see the top of my post. You don't have to be a member to care, but it does help the fight, that's all.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 16:09:40 (PST)
Any truth in the rumour we are playing in red next season to give us more fight?
RJM
the Den, - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 14:08:24 (PST)
Being a bit picky, I know Paul, sorry, but Koppel isn't the club. Anyway, we turned down a cozy little chat when he'd promised to meet fans at the theatre and we've said there's no point in talking to him, and we'll be happy to work with WFC Ltd when they've dropped their plans to kill the club. We accepted the invitation to join in the setting up of the WOOF and we've attended all the meetings, including the one Koppel refused to come to when invited by the Fans' Council. It is entirely pointless talking to the man, as he's only there to do as he's told and doesn't have the freedom to do the right thing even if he wanted to.
kris (chair@wisa.org.uk)
Croydon, England - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 14:07:15 (PST)
SF - Correct me if I'm wrong but I though earlier in the season WISA said that they would no longer talk to the club. Perhaps the issue has been 'partly' resolved following the introduction of WOFF but I thought that was still the case.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 13:50:19 (PST)
Paul slightly cvonfused by your blief that it is WISA policy not to talk to the Club. It may have escaped pyur attention but they have two seats on the OWFF Council and do so regularly. I stood on an open MK ticket my membership of any other organisation is in fact irelevant. I would have greatly appreciate a bigger mandate as I am sure would all candidates, Koppel for the record attended the last OWFF meeitng as will be shown if the club ever put the minutes up on the website. I will talk to him but only to show my utter contempt for him, if you ever speak to him he wil ltel lyou how we have had at least one lengthy telephone conversation and that i didnt hang up on him. My door is open but I do not believe he will attend the next one :)
Sean Fox (seanphilfox@aol.com)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 13:11:54 (PST)
James - Tony and Paul C are Tony White and Paul Crosbie who were also involved in the starting up of the shop along with Sharon Sillitoe.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 12:32:11 (PST)
Ralph - anyone, member of WISA or not, is of course entitled to share their own views about any issue at any time. WISA would be a ridiculous organisation if it tried to get in the way of that. But if someone wants to know what WISA thinks as an organisation, then they come to one of us five. And if WISA has a policy on the particular subject, then we say what it is. And if WISA hasn't, then we say so. Fair enough?
kris (chair@wisa.org.uk)
London, England - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 10:29:56 (PST)
Stuart - who the hell are Tony and Paul C when they are at home?
James
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 09:15:50 (PST)
Re: Club shop - breaks my heart - I'd love it to be a place where supporters go and give their love (and money) to the club. But it's not (at the moment). Shame it's also one of the main 'battle fronts' in the war against MK. Gutted I missed the opening - seriously considered cancelling my holiday to Oz.
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 09:07:16 (PST)
Re: 'Care' - I've re-written this post 20 times already - but keep trying to shorten it. Re-read my original message! Some people care enough to work their rear ends off every day - risking jobs, etc. etc. Some don't. Doesn't mean theose who don't, don't care about the club - I'm not saying that. Others make their effort in other ways. As long as people do the best they can, I'm happy. What upsets me is people who don't 'care' enough to understand the situation - and then make uninformed comments about it. It can be argued that if they care enough to get the minimal knowledge they have, that should be good enough for me, but it isn't. Given the circumstances, I would hope everyone knows what is going on. I'm still mystified why only 700 or so people applied to join OWFF (before anyone was elected). And that was even with WISA recommending all their members join!
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 09:03:38 (PST)
Stuart - I know you hate the shop issue but once WFC are back in Merton the shop will buzz and you will get praised (like it or not). I would like to say something about WISA - yes I am a member - during this fight against MK WISA have been absolutely phenomenal, they have done more for the fans of our club than could ever have been expected, a lot of people don't seem to like WISA but look at it from a different angle - apart from season ticket holders there are more WISA members than any other body involved with the club - they have the biggest voice as far as the fans go and they/we will continue the fight until the bitter end, put simply they are our only chance of a return to Merton (without them MK would probably been signed already
Hutch
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 09:03:20 (PST)
REPD - yer should of looked on the wisa site at time I forget about all the stuff thats on their my bookmark goes straight to wisa chat.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 09:01:05 (PST)
So if their are two more people added who can give interviews will you become the secret seven.
Enid Blyton (eb@booksetc.co.uk)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 08:53:18 (PST)
Ronan, trust me I have not forgot what you tried to do for us in the shop. I do really apriciate that and if I havent said thank then I will now. What gets under my skin, is when it is implied that myself, Paul or Chris dont care what happens to the club. The reason I gave up alot of my spare time the summer before last, was because I cared for the club. I didnt go on guestbooks and ask for praise, I did it to get satisfaction for the job that Paul, chris and Tony and Paul C did. When that shop opened for real, once it was done up, it gave me such a buzz to think it was all done and hope fans would be proud of it. I appriciate that you must get stressed also when your work is being questioned, but can honestly say i do appriciate all WISA 's work. I suppose the abuse I got at the shop has made me bite on this MK issue. Unfortunalty the shop was a great idea, but launched at the wrong time maybe...
Stuart D (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 08:44:13 (PST)
Ralph - we have a famous five to ensure the policy of the organisation is put across and not personal views - as often posted in guestbooks etc. It also makes life a lot easier for the media/WFC Ltd/police/council etc. - they know who to contact. Most importantly it means a consistant viewpoint is put across - nothing worse than having the same thing said 1500 different ways. Hope your comment about people knowing jack about football wasn't aimed at me btw ;-) (yes - that's a smiley face in case you missed it!)
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 08:27:19 (PST)
R Malph - basically, it's to stop WISA getting misrepresented in print/meeja. Before they did the constitution, it used to be a bit of a free-for-all with regards to who said what. I know that I was once on RTE during Dublin and I was listed as some kind of WISA spokesman even though I wasn't involved with either the committee at the time or any sort of working group. And you can see the problems that can (and did) cause. Also, I do know that by having proper channels for communication, it does make various news outlets more willing to talk to them.
REPD (http://www.sw19s-army.co.uk)
Being rather boring and sensible, - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 08:21:11 (PST)
Ronan - why do you need a constitution to allow you to speak out? Are you unable to form your own views and discuss them without checking with the famous 5? In principal WISA should be a good thing... sadly too many ill informed people who know absolutely jack about football in any shape or form and think they can tell me that I don't care.
Ralph Malph
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 08:15:12 (PST)
Thanks for the grapes lads. Soon as I'm up and about again I'm off to Ninnian Park to ask for the money back. Had the Jacket embroidered with 'Sam you theiving B*****d where's our £8m? Swansea the only team in Wales' on the back. Remember kids 'Millwall... all mouth'
Red Jacket Man (rjm@intensivecare_guyshospital.com)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 08:10:08 (PST)
PR - at the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, I know that the WISA website has a list of who does what there.
REPD (repd1@juno.com)
Morden, the fried chicken takeaway capital of South London - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 08:07:09 (PST)
Stuart - it's pretty obvious you don't understand my posts - and I certainly don't understand yours. It's got nothing to do with you working in the shop - and you seem to quickly forget the lengths I went to to try and improve how yourself, Chris and Paul were treated by ALL wimbledon fans (not just in my offical WISA capacity). As I said to Chris while playing pool with him on Monday - it's not an ideal situation for anyone, but the personal attacks on people because they are club shop staff is wrong. Finally, I wasn't involved in the Dublin protests because (a) I didn't support Wimbledon and (b) I actually hated football. However, as a Dublin man myself, I was against the move, and wrote letters to the irish newspapers because it was both bad for irish football, and because the supporters of the team were against it. For me, my involvement in this campaign is not just about football, or wimbledon, but also about what is right and wrong. Unfortunately my other 'pet issues' like dumping nuclear waste in the irish sea, racism, sweat shops and freedom of choice (abortion) have had to take a back seat during this one!
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 08:05:37 (PST)
Appreciate that others get quoted but was just trying to put names to each of the positions.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 07:49:52 (PST)
Ronan, good to see your on form, I have just read your post again and does 'When you go to bed at night, ask yourself, 'what have I actively done today to save the club?' - posting on a guestbook does not count.' mean anything. I interprut that as a sleeping issue. Dont know maybe other can comment. And also Ronan, if I claim to care, what makes you think that I dont. What makes the other 2,000 + season ticket holders who have yet to join WISA???? You say I dont know nothing and dont check my facts. Well sorry Ronan, I read nothing else but this issue every day, so I think I should have a good idea what things are about. See Ronan, WISA say that if you do nothing then you are still a fan, but if you admit that and try to get answers, you get accused of not doing nothing. You say I didnt do nothing, were you at those earlier meeting years ago at the Pheonix???? Were you at the big meeting at the Pheonix concernign the Dublin issue?? If you have a problem with me, fine, but dont accuse me of not caring!!! or did you not say that either??? Ronan, the reason you have a problem with me is because I used to work for the club, admit it, it wont hurt me. Its just a shame that Jonesy and other talk to me and liten to what I say. You just go off on one and claim people dont care.
Stuart D (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 07:43:53 (PST)
PR - officially, those five are the only ones authorized to speak for WISA, though it doesn't stop the newspapers and other such meeja outlets passing anyone off as a WISA spokesman/woman.
REPD (repd1@juno.com)
Two turntables and a microphone, - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 07:40:27 (PST)
Paul - Yes (and even then they make it obvious they are speaking on behalf of WISA through press releases etc.) However, don't forget people are given permission as well on a case by case basis.
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 07:37:38 (PST)
REPD - Cheers for getting back to us. I thought that is what you were getting at but just wanted to make sure.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 07:30:52 (PST)
So as it stands at the mo am I right in thinking that means only Kris, Lou, Collett, Lawerence and Pete B can officially speak for WISA?
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 07:28:29 (PST)
PR - had to go out and just saw your post to me. Basically, I am referring to the way that just about everyone (and I may include myself to a point here) fell for Hammam's patter. In other words, "Sam will look after us". We all know the truth now, I'll leave it at that.
REPD (repd1@juno.com)
SM4, - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 07:28:15 (PST)
Ronan, I think u just have to understand mate, that to some people it is killing them to see Wimbledon go but at the end of the day they have a life outside of a football club. I know Stuart and the others all personally and they have all done stuff to help us in OUR fight! I think u should just mellow down a bit, take a chill pill, find some other hobbies, then it might all seem a little better!
Jamie (jamieweir@fcuk-me.co.uk)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 07:26:27 (PST)
Paul - no I'm not. See section 6 of the WISA constitution! However, I have occasionally been authorised to speak on behalf of WISA for television interviews etc.(which requires Exec Committee approval and I am normally briefed beforehand on what to say) 6: Media announcements
6.1: Only the Chair, Vice-Chair, Secretary, Publicity Officer and Club Liaison Officer are authorised to give on-the-record comment expressing the opinion of WISA.
6.2: If there is no association view or policy on a subject, WISA members should take care to ensure that any comments attributed to them are expressed in their personal capacity, not as WISA representatives.
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 07:21:39 (PST)
Stuart - perhaps you didn't read my post properly. At no point did I ask if people can sleep at night. I have no right to say that - AND I DIDN'T. Next time read more carefully. As you say, going to games for 12 years gives you no more right than anyone else. You are whinging and moaning about an organisation you can't be bothered to join to try and change it from the inside, or set up an alternative, or be bothered to find out what it actually says. If you paid more attention to how it actually works, what it's policies are, how motions get passed and what the individuals stand for you would at least be whinging from an informed point of view. If you could understand the difference between WISA, OWFF, DT and Y&B that would be a help as well. However, you are not bothering to do that, so you continue to mouth off uninformed jibberish amongst a group of people who have made the effort to find out what is going on with their club (and some are trying to change it). I don't have a problem with people who don't do anything to save the club (although I don't like it), I have a problem with people like you who claim to care - but can't get their facts straight. I don't care what side people are on - as long as they can argue their point without resorting to petty insults resulting from personal issues they have with the individuals involved.
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 07:13:07 (PST)
Ronan - football is changing. Communities... the Wimbledon community is Chelsea and Fulham because of years of neglect from a previous owner. I applaud the 'It's a community thing' campaign, but only about a sixth of ST holders come from Merton (The community you speak of). If this community cares, like you and I and MD, BW, TW, ED, Paul et al where are they on a Saturday afternoon?
Ralph Malph
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 07:12:27 (PST)
Well we are having fun in here this afternoon arent we :) Ronan I dont think you will find one person on this site who has critised the Dons Trust. If people read the posts on here about Y&B they are positive about it but their seems (from some people) an air of negatvity towards this site due to the fact that it has an association with the club shop. - Also to say that just because someone hasn't written to MP, Media, FL everyday/week/month they are not a "True" supporter who "Cares" Is very dangerous comment to make. Ronan Are you one of the five who can speak for WISA?
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 07:12:20 (PST)
Ralph - I agree that it can sometimes become silly - but if people want to do that - fair enough, and being one of them, I can say I'm more than happy to do it - for a team (and group of people) I have only started supporting relatively recently. It's not just about Wimbledon, it's about football, history, people and communities (my community I might ask).
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 06:58:12 (PST)
Ronan, I see you have got out of the bed the wrong side of the wall again an whacked you head on the WALL!!!! Ronan, I dont care waht you or anyone else does for WISA, I really dont. I dont go to Wimbledon games to get thanked for going, and neither do I imagine you do stuff for WISA to get thanked for it either. I do take offence however when you come on here and say do we sleep at night. Ronan, what right do you have to say that. I have gone to games for over 12 years and I think that gives me more right than you to slag off overs about supporting my team. Saying that I would never dream of it but sort of comments like that get under my skin. Everyone has a right to whine, winge as you put it about anything, that is also what democracy is about.
Stuart D (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 06:44:51 (PST)
Ronan - you said it - people putting careers, health and personal relationships, that's where it becomes silly. I have a life outside football, it's a hobby (one I care deeply about), but my life is more important to me. I don't need to make myself ill with worry and stress, there are more important things in life. People need to take a reality check at times. If people want to put all that at risk then that is their look-out. I make my voice heard on Saturday's and I've written to DB at the League, but as many people are beginning to think 'for what?'. I just worked it out earlier and chose to say it earlier than others. As you said Ronan their are only 5 people who can speak for WISA and members... I can speak for myself.
Ralph Malph
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 06:33:33 (PST)
Full details of the EDM and the 107 MPs who have now signed it can be found at EDM
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 06:28:23 (PST)
Today I received another letter from Roger Casale M.P. regarding the MK thing. In the letter he enclosed a copy og Hansard covering the a debate on Football Club Funding. There was also attatched details of the Early Day Motion which was supported by 70 MPs. Among them my representive Tom Cox. There are many well known politicians on the list. If you have written to RogerCasale I should imagine you will also receive this letter. If you haven't talk to someone who has a get a look at the whole package. It is too long to post here.
TW
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 06:22:38 (PST)
RBQC : OWFF are WISA in disguise. How do you work that one out ? All members of the OWFF council were democratically elected and every season ticket holder had a right to vote. Plenty of the candidates ( and again, anyone could have put themselves forward for election ) were non WISA people and not all of those elected were from WISA. The only similarity between the two organisations is that all elected OWFF council members are staunchly anti-MK. In refusing to attend OWFF meetings Koppel is simply saying that he will not talk to people who disagree with him. The fact of the matter is that the leading lights in WISA will always be to the fore as they are the people prepared to actually do something and put themselves in the firing line to protect all of our interests and for that they deserve nothing but respect. Yes, they can be vocal but that is because our support can be so apathetic. With the threat of MK still hanging over us I find the “ ignore it, concentrate on the football, and it will go away “ attitude of many people astounding. I have read many posts on here from people claiming to be opposed to MK but whose only contribution to the cause appears to be to slag off those prepared to take action. Fine, you disagree with what WISA are doing but what have you done ? Have you written to WISA to suggest what could be done differently ? Remember, without those committing a large portion of their lives to WISA and the campaign, MK would already be signed sealed and delivered.
Rich (richard.fraser@uk.thalesgroup.com)
Earlsfield, - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 06:14:14 (PST)
Ronan - well said!
Hutch
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 05:44:22 (PST)
OWFF - was set up by Koppell himself, every Dons fan could have stood, every dons fan could have been part of it. Has it occured to anyone that the reason why anti MK candidates were elected is simply because only 30 people want MK (and I would bet that Koppell had some of his cronies amongst the 30.) Y and B has been running for a matter of months whereas the official programme has been going for many years and it still can't get it right, how good is Y and B going to be when it has been running for a while! (it already thrashes the bollocks off the official one - can it get any better?), Ralph - sounds like you know how to make Y and B better why don't you email Alex or Niall with your suggestions?
Hutch
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 05:41:44 (PST)
Regarding all the various posts about WISA, OWFF, DT, Y&B etc. GIVE IT A REST. As the first three are democratic organisations - if you don't like what they do - join, and change it. It's like bitching about the government but not voting at general elections. If you don't like the fact that the OWFF council is made up of WISA people (and not all of them are WISA members) - stand for election yourself next time. If you did, and didn't get elected - TOUGH - that's democracy for ya. If you don't like what WISA are doing, tell your nearest committee member - they are there to represent YOUR views. Secondly, Y&B is a private publication - but they do offer the opportunity (via the letters page) to make your views known. You are the customers - if you don't like it, and don't want to buy it anymore - tell them why. Of course you will have your own opinions - but if you are in the minority, and are out-voted, that's too bad. However, it does not mean your views are ignored. Everything said about WISA is taken on board, and the campaign run accordingly - hence the 'clean' campaign, without intimidation, without violence, and without lies. If you object to what individuals say, remember that only 5 WISA members are allowed to speak on behalf of WISA (except in extreme, specifically authorised instances) - anything else is a personal comment. I do not take the comments by Paul Raymond, Chris Draper etc. as views representing WFC Ltd. Hopefully we'll see all those people unhappy with various aspects of WISA, OWFF, Y&B, and the DT do something contructive from now on, rather than just bitch and slag off people who are putting their careers, health and personal relationships on the line trying to save the club. When you go to bed at night, ask yourself, 'what have I actively done today to save the club?' - posting on a guestbook does not count. You don't have to do something everyday - but think about the people who spend hours EVERY DAY working on the campaign before you whinge and moan - they care enough about the club (and have the time) to work their asses off - do you?
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 05:38:59 (PST)
All - in no way did I man to offend anyone involved with Y&B. I fully appreciate the work they put in their spare time. The point I was trying to make is feel it is pretty similar to Pravda. Of course there is a place for anti CK, MK & Club issues, but if it could go a step beyond that it would make it one hell of a programme. It is being run by football fans, no Dons fans, who know what they are doing and what Dons fans want. By all means make people aware of current developments in the fight, acknowledgement of the Clubs wrongs. Rather than slagging it off and going down to it's level, this would take Y&B to the level it rightly deserves to be. Far and above the official sham.
Ralph Malph
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 05:24:43 (PST)
REPD - Do I presume that you refer to being walked over by SH in the 90's or am I missing the point?
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 05:13:03 (PST)
Cho - I think that last post is a bit harsh. if you read the posts people praise Y&B and I would imagine they would agree that 1) It's the best supporters publication that we have ever had 2) Their is a place for it. The problem I have with WOFF is that with a number of the people on it being from WISA and it's WISA policy not to talk to the club it seems to be going round in circles. Its frustrating to see the ability we have in terms of fans not being able to sit down and trying to sort it out. Anyway I am now putting my flame proof jacket on to get ready for all the flack I expect to receive :)
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 05:04:10 (PST)
I never understand why people get uptight with things like the OWFF being "hijacked" by WISA. Is it because those in WISA are more willing to put themselves forward? I'm just glad people are actually making some sort of stand. What's the alternative? You all know what that is, we had too much of that during the 90s, and I don't want to see that again.
REPD (repd1@juno.com)
Get this party started, - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 05:00:07 (PST)
Hello. First of all, Y&B will continue to write articles that "slag the club off" until the day comes that the club stops treating its fans like rubbish. Seeing as a day hasn't gone by since August last year when a new example of their ignorance and spite hasn't come to light, it seems purely "head in the sand" to ignore it and just "concentrate on the football". If you notice, though, we do try to ignore protests/anti-MK stuff in match reports, which are in fact just about the football. That said, if ANYONE thinks that Y&B is doing something wrong then tell us - it's YOUR programme. We may be the fount of all knowledge, but we do listen ;-)
Alex Kirk (alex@yellowandblue.org)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 04:55:32 (PST)
RB, and anyone else too thick to see the real point, if OWFF is WISA in disguise why don't you form you're own pro MK Dons supporters group and see how many join. I don't see anyone from this site doing anything constructive to prevent CK getting his way and moving the club to MK. All you fvckers do is whinge and whine about what is being done. If you don't like Yellow and Blue print your own alternative programme and see how many that sells..etc....WTMK
cho
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 04:52:15 (PST)
Ralphy my man,Y&B "could be better" why not write to the letters section to express your opinion along with your suggstions, "to self congtatulatory" I think he guys involved have a right to be pleased with what they are achieving considering that it is not their full time employment and the quality of the finished article, "constant slagging of the club becoming tedious" come on Ralphy, do you not think that the club deserve everything that we can throw at them plus much more, what do's your girlfriend think
Wibbly Don
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 04:45:45 (PST)
Ralph - fair comment. Hutch - looking at it, from the other POV, what's the point in the club attending OWFF meetings - they're just WISA in disguise (i don't like the term "Hijacked"). (Mancs, WW, Baggies, Cov, 'Wall & Brum)
R.B. QC
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 04:39:53 (PST)
Hi Bexy nice to have you on the site and we try and have open discussion on the message board. Regarding the Stu/Jamie/Vicky posts they are best of mates and they were just having a laugh hope no one takes offence by them.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 04:25:20 (PST)
Ralph - none of the articles in Y and B slagging off the club are written without reason IMO, the club have done f*** all for their CUSTOMERS all season. announcing MK just after the season ticket money was banked, making fans united as difficult as possible to pull off, setting up it's own fans forum and not turning up at it's meetings, organising a meeting with a defunct residents association to oppose a move home and everything in between need more reasons? WFC as has been proven this season has some of the most well organised, educated and resourceful fans around and some of the most un-organised, un-educated and brainless idiots running the club. Wolves, Man City, WBA, Millwall, Burnley, Coventry BTW although looking at our remaining home games any reason why we can't mount a late challenge?
Hutch
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 04:24:19 (PST)
Re; the below..Bollox
cho
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 04:20:49 (PST)
New to this site. Like it. But I have to say, guys - enough bitching already!! Koppout would love to see his opposition turning on each other like grouchy school kids. And Jamie, I'm really hoping that you were using 'gay' as an insult in a purely ironic sense. Pretty offensive otherwise.
Bexy (bex_bellingham@yahoo.co.uk)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 04:14:44 (PST)
RM - Top 6 Wolves, Man City and then in no order WBA, Cov, Millwall , Norwich.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 04:02:06 (PST)
Paul (and anyone else FTM) - your top 6 for the end of the season? I know there are some people who don't want to talk about football, because there is a bigger 'battle', but i'm just curious. Sorry about that
Ralph Malph
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 03:28:38 (PST)
RB QC - I think both publications could be better. I prefer reading Y&B because it has a bit of history and memories involved. The only criticism I have is that Y&B is too self congratulatory and potrays itself as the font of all knowledge. I know there is a battle against MK etc... and some don't have the access we do to these forums, but some of the articles and constant slagging of the Club are becoming tedious.
Ralph Malph
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 03:26:33 (PST)
RB QC, I was involved in the early meetings of WISA when it was in its early days. I remember going to a few meetings at the Pheonix Hotel with Laurence Lowne, Jonesy, Steve Elson and others. I didnt join then either, although I dont think there was a membership fee those days anyway. I was however involved in the Dublin meetings and others when WISA really took off. I will always give up my time for a Wimbledon related issue, but I dont agree with people just to fit in, but back then I no one took my or other people in the group seriously. Im not saying it is like that now, from what I can see, but those wasted nights years ago just means that I dont want to join WISA. Please before anyone says that I support MK, just read what I have put before assuming.
Stuart D (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 02:40:19 (PST)
RB,QC, I think that the BW, Ralph, Stuart D,Martin D, issue is getting way out of hand and is becoming all a bit boring, they should now all take a step back and agree to disagree and look at the real issue, ie Koppell and the whole MK issue, but I must take you up on the Chris Phillps and WISA issues, Chris left out of principle, his principles nobody else's and to call him a wuss is being extremely derogatory to the mans character, obviously you have never met Chris and as for WISA I along with many more belong to WISA, (we all can't be mindless morons listening to the few), for me the main reasons for joining, (A)to hopefully get my voice heard and (B)help in the fight to return Wimbledon FC to Plough Lane. Getting my voice heard has worked, I have received letters of support from councilers, members of parliament, chairmen of other football clubs, the media and supporters groups, non of which in my case would have happened without the support or guidance of WISA and 2nd point returning to Plough Lane I am, still working on it
Wibbly Don
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 02:36:18 (PST)
RB Q.C the official programme is no-where near the same quality of Y&B I am even surprised that anyone is debating that, what football content there is is badly written and has nothing like the passion of a Y&B and at least twice as many adverts - the fact that it is outselling the official offering by 3:1 kind of proves this IMO. Ralph post your email address on here and I will send you something that will help you understand a bit more about Koppell and his lies - by the way why would a patch of land that was a football ground for 90 years suddenly not be able to accomodate a stadium? WFC telling the truth -funniest thing I have heard for a while!
Hutch
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 02:30:06 (PST)
Ralph - whilst I agree with some of your comments re: Y&B, I still reckon it's quality and equal in that quality with the official prog. (:)) And you're right, Chris Phillips' does go on about what a players'-friend he is, though he obviously isn't any more. Oh and his arguement for leaving? Well I haven't heard the new fella saying anything about MK being wonderful, so his arguement falls flat. Put simply, he bowed to the pressure of his peers. Wuss.
R.B. QC
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 01:37:55 (PST)
Brighton - If memory serves, if it wasn't for people like stu, Paul and Chris (who were members LONG before you showed up), WISA would have gone tits up years ago. P,S&C, let me know if I'm out of line!
R.B. QC
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 01:30:41 (PST)
BW, just for your reference I did not join WISA and never have. Its purely my choice. Does that make me a MK lover by your standards????? As for being childish, in all fairness your posts are the one that follow that format.
Stuart D (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
- Wednesday, February 27, 2002 at 01:28:09 (PST)
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