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E Don, there may not be a football team to ask question about next week, as for the hardship line, agreed there are many people who have real hardship, there are also many who just sponge of the state and do nothing about it and expect others to help them, there are those who have been made redundant I was one of them but FFS you do not just sit there and take it and hope something will come along, you need to get up and get back what respect you may have lost and fight for what you beleive in, I beleive in Wimbledon FC and I will fight to win back my club against the evil that is killing it and I resent anyone who in anyway supports koppell and as for TW's comment "they are just there to supply it if asked" utter bollox, finally I wished that everyone would stop condemming the people who work in the shop and I wish that the people in the shop would stop condoning what they do cause it is going no where except winding me up
Confused
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 14:53:32 (PST)
Anyone who REALLY believes that this club is going to be put into administration is believing the lies 100%. Rokke wont want a) To instantly lose full control of his asset b) To lose all that money. This a is merely an enormous lie to tell arbitration in order to swindle us out of our club.
Phillo (chris@aestheticz.com)
London, - Monday, January 14, 2002 at 14:52:37 (PST)
Jim Knight MP (Lab) (South Dorset) is a good man, he was No99 to sign EDM570 on 10th January
Dorset Womble
Hamworthy , Drunk Dorset - Monday, January 14, 2002 at 14:36:14 (PST)
......woudn't happen that is ;-)
Brighton Womble
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 14:12:52 (PST)
Edinburgh, 'thuggery and intimidation'. Oh yes, on a grand scale. As for 'we may not have a football club next week', yes, we may not. 6 days and counting.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
Of course, if we win when this is all over, some people will just sit back and say 'I told you it wouldn't'., - Monday, January 14, 2002 at 14:12:14 (PST)
"We may not have a football club next week" seems to be a favourite phrase among Dons fans atm and some are using it as justification for thuggery and intimidation. There are people in this country today who 'might not' have a home next week, or 'might not' have a job next week. Yes losing our football club would be very sad indeed, but I think some people are getting carried away with it all. Think about people who are facing REAL hardship before going OTT as some people clearly are. Is it a football club we are fighting for? So why did only 2 people bother answering a footballing question?
Edinburgh Don (edinburghdon@yahoo.co.uk)
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 13:23:35 (PST)
Jonesy, how would I know why you are barred from the players lounge. Apart from the fact I know nothing about it I don't even know who you are. The reason I complain about being told what I should or shouldn't do is because I am entitled to my counsel. Not once have you seen or heard me tell anyone on here what they should do. But so many of the protestors are being very abusive towards others without knowing the full facts. Life is not black and white, unfortunately there are many grey areas in between. I can't speak for anybody employed full time by the club but I think it is unfair to expect them just to give up their living. Many of them don't care about football anyway, they're not there on match days, and see it as just a job. As for part timers, I don't hear them encouraging people to buy the club merchandise. They are just there to supply it if asked. If they were to all leave you would then have a club filled with people with no sense of our history. Then when this thing is beaten you will have less people involved to help us go forward. I can't see the arbitration panel finding for WFC and I don't really worry about the threat of administrators. The Norwegians want their money back, that won't come from adminstrators. But you mentioned Charlton, did they not go into adminstration? They did and have come out stronger for it. We are in this together and we all have our ways of fighting it, different maybe but with a common aim. One final point, I will not explain the whys and wherefores, but I do not work for Koppel.
TW
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 12:06:45 (PST)
For Rowley B - whose email doesn't work... You are more than entitled to the opinion you hold that MK is NOT death.
I do however feel strongly that the club CANNOT represent WIMBLEDON being
located 60 miles north of it past 11 other football clubs.
I also expect MK Dons to happen almost immediately.
IF Milton Keynes is such a hotbed of potential support, why don't the
residents of Milton Keynes currently travel down 60 miles there and back and
support us now - after all, that's what I'm expected to do if Koppel wins.
As for Plough Lane being a mere 'wonderful idea' - it also happens to be the
club returning home - a most saleable bit of PR if ever there was some.
I'll remind you if a tam that once played before 5000 at Selhurst and faced
financial meltdown. They are called Charlton Athletic, sit in the
Premiership and play to full houses. They didn't go to Milton Keynes because
they had vision and understood what community meant.
How anyone can be soft on Koppel's plans after his recent movements and
comments is beyond me.
Jonesy
Jonesy (mj@jonesyweb.org)
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 11:08:27 (PST)
Here is the point about working for WFC... NOT working there under the current owners is a strong statement. Chris Philips, Sharon Silletoe, Barney, Stuart D and others have gone on a matter of PRINCIPLE. The message it gives is strong, loud and very clear. To stay there and say you are fighting is clearly untrue because anyone anti has resigned or been persuaded to. It may make things easier for you TW to suggest that many are 'enjoying' being 'anti'. I think that's just too similar to the disrespect that prevails at OUR club right now. Are WISA just moaning and 'telling' people what to do? No, they have gone about their business well and PROVED that Merton is viable. Ask yourself why Roy Law and Dickie Guy are happy to be seen in the WISA camp if all we are is 'anti'. WFC have shown disrespect to the supporters for a long time - Reg has insulted us almost constantly by telling us what we will and won't do (ie sitting at the Batsford testimonial and saying 'you'll all go to MK once the team starts winning'. Your talk about football being a hobby says much. For a lot of people it's what holds friendships together and is a PART of their lives, and not just a little distraction. You're not being told to resign, your insistance to work for the man hell bent on destroying what we love is under question. As for telling people what to think - care to expand in here on the reason I have been banned from the players lounge? Scared the truth will harm the cosy atmosphere? (of course, this info has been relayed to me by a friend that is allowed in there, no-one from WFC had the balls to tell me to my face).
Jonesy (mj@jonesyweb.org)
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 10:07:05 (PST)
The cup game is definatley up for grabs tomorrow night and the Boro manager (steve Mclaren) made comments about lack of a crowd I wil be surprised if the Riverside is half fall tomorrow night. I think Ainsworth could well play 45 minutes tonight for the reserves and then be called into action at some point tomorrow. I dont think we have anything to fear.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Monday, January 14, 2002 at 07:36:43 (PST)
Edinburgh Don, we had our chances especially in the first half. But our final ball into the box went wayward too often. Also, I think we were guilty , sometimes, of one pass too many. It's as though that incisive spark is missing. As to the replay, I don't know how Midlesborough shape up at home. But they're bound to be tough on their pitch. If TB gambles with Ainsworth we might just have that little bit of boldness that we need. If we can get the ball into the box often and accurately enough we could grab a victory.
TW
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 07:08:52 (PST)
So, what do you all reckon on our chances of getting past 'boro? I saw the highlights of the first game and it looked like we deserved to beat them.
Edinburgh Don
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 06:00:38 (PST)
James, a quick answer before I go back to football. Your point about clubs being able to purchase positions is the issue that I have used in every one of my letters. I have, over this recent turbulent period, written to the League Council memebers, The F.A, the Minister of Sport, 3 local M.Ps and each of the arbitration memebers. I have approached the subject from that of a football supporter not just as a Wimbledon supporter. I have pointed out the danger that exists to all smaller clubs should this move be allowed. It puts in peril the tradition and heritage of communities everywhere. Now back to football. Paul, yes it was a surprise TB putting Ainsworth on early. But he needed a good run as I think he's only had half a match in the reserves prior to coming back. I don't expect we will see the best of him just yet. I suppose it will depend on how much match time he gets and if TB is prepared to put in into the starting line up. When Williams comes back TB is going to get that (nice) selection problem.
TW
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 05:30:58 (PST)
Martin - what I think will happen is the administrators will come in and say, hold on a minute you have nearly 40 players in your squad (including 6 full internationals) - cut the squad down get rid of the PR company, work with the fans on designing a programme (they do it 50 times better and sell it cheaper) and start to run your club like a first division set up giving youth players a chance and getting the fans involved wherever possible
Hutch
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 05:03:01 (PST)
Just a quick point for discussion (flame alert!): WHEN the club lose the arbitration and put WFC into administration or wind it up completely, what will the remaining club employees do? Resign before being sacked anyway as we/the administrators/receivers slash expenditure? Hang on in there even though their wages are further weakening the club IYSWIM? It's an honest question BTW.
Martin Drake (martin_drake@hotmail.com)
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 03:59:21 (PST)
Just a quick question: FIFA have stated yesterday that Rangers or Celtic will never be allowed in the Premier League! If MK goes ahead what stops these or any club buying a Prem or 1st Division club and changing its identity????? Has anyone considered using this argument at arbitration?
James
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 03:55:29 (PST)
Whats a sub? :) we always seemed to have a problem with managers using subs. Infootball you either have the Bazzer where you do 3 subs in one go idealy at half time or the Burton version where you put someone on for just under 2 minutes plus injury time :) I was shocked on Saturday when GA came on and their was still 30 minutes left.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Monday, January 14, 2002 at 03:29:28 (PST)
Following on from Ainsworth's return, has any one else got thoughts on the way TB uses his subs. I've always been of the opinion that a tatical sub needs at least twenty minutes to fit in with the game. He needs time to pick up on the pace of the game. I know a sub will sometimes score with his first touch but it is not as coomon as thought. And it is usually because the opposition hasn't had time to sort out where he's playing or who should be marking.
TW
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 03:21:15 (PST)
RB,QC, Sir I presume that you are referring to my last post,I can only reiterate that I personally think that Stuart has done the right and proper thing in resigning, this is not a WISA issue, it is my personel opinion, I am not sure where you are coming from doe's working for a mate exonerate you from doing the right thing, anyway I think that MORE than enough has been said on the item and we should respect each others decisions irrespective what we think about them and as TW says lets get back to the football due the fact that if the decision go's against us on the 21st we wont have anymore Wimbledon FC to talk about
Wibbly Don
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 03:08:45 (PST)
WD - when are you going to wake up to the fact that Stuart was working for his MATE. He didn't want to let his MATE down. He didn't work for CK, he was being loyal to a friend. The same fella who has had a lot of "Friends" turn their backs on him, because he won't give up his full-time job.
Rowley Birkin QC (uncle88uk@yahoo.com)
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 02:40:19 (PST)
Laurence, your splitting hairs and well you know it. I have no problem with anybody working for any company or club. Why is it that those of you that keep on to the part timers are so right all time. The minute we point out facts to you we're "telling tales out of school." This whole thing has got stupid and boring. I try talking about football but back come the snipers.
TW
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 01:56:14 (PST)
Well done Stuart, I am sure that it was not an easy decision to make but when you look at all the evidence against Koppell his lies, deceipt, his conspiracy to make Fans United day fail and the final bit of complete contempt for the Wimbledon Supporters as highlighted in the transcripts of his meeting with the HBRA I am sure that you have made the right decision
Wibbly Don
- Monday, January 14, 2002 at 01:09:03 (PST)
Stu - well done mate. I'm sorry it came to this - but you have done the right thing. Big respect.
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 16:28:53 (PST)
Stuart I am not scoring pointssimply stating facts then I am not the one who sent potentially libellous or slanderous allegations to WISA regarding the activities of one "Mark Fox" who I am assuming you are confusing with me?
sean fox
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 16:13:34 (PST)
Sean, please dont come on here to score points!!! BTW I was in the Club Shop yesterday and saw everything!!! I want to forget it, I would of thought you would of to!!
Stuart Deacons (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
Wimbledon, - Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 15:39:21 (PST)
So ok stuart you have resigned well done anyone else care to show some principles as well? If you dont believe us listen to the tapes Koppel hates every Wopmble supporter time to get off the fence people.
sean fox-who despite suggestions has not attempted to burn down the club shop (seanphilfox@aol.com)
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 15:20:10 (PST)
Well done to Stuart for doing the right thing. Perhaps others will follow ? If anyone was still in any doubt about CK, Brunswick and WFC itself, then the Haydons Bridge Res. meet transcript is absolutely damning evidence of what self serving charlatans the owners are. WFC is rotten to the core. Whatever happens, WFC will be in Merton and those who chose, by their actions, to endorse Koppel and his masters will not be welcome. The choice is stark. Do it.
MarkC
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 15:07:42 (PST)
big big respect to Stuart D
The Real Hash
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 14:58:10 (PST)
Hold on a mo - TW did a post that apprantley is incorrect but to be honest I had to read it three times to see what Lawrence was getting at (unless the full text is printed elsewhere) Lawrence replyed to it and I have no problem with that but people backbitting is not needed so can people lay off it. Thanks
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 14:25:34 (PST)
TW, Just like Koppell get your facts right before telling tales out of school, you are digging yourself into a deeper hole
Spin
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 14:17:14 (PST)
I would like to confirm that I have quit working for the shop as from today
Stuart Deacons (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
Wimbledon, - Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 13:59:55 (PST)
TW Wrote: 'And whilst we are at it, where is this "don't work for WFC coming" from? If it's WISA then ask Laurence Lowndes (Uncle Bulgeria), who probably founded the association, to explain why a member of his family still works for the club.' ----- Well TW, I am glad you spotted that :) Let's get my name right shall we? It's spelt LOWNE - no "d" or "s". I am a founder of WISA in December 1995 and previously served on the WFSC Committee and was Editor of Dons Outlook for one season and GRAPEVINE for seven seasons. Yes a family member - my sister, Sandra, works on a matchday at Selhurst Park Stadium just as I did in 1991 in the collections box in the Executive Car Park. Previouly we both ran the ticket office in Plough Lane. Now here is a shock for you. She is EMPLOYED by Selhurst Park Stadium Box Office and paid by Crystal Palace NOT Wimbledon Football Club Ltd. That is what her payslip says, and I checked with her tonight beofre posting this reply. She supports the boycott of club merchandise and programmes. Is there anything else you wish to know? If so, why not pick up the phone and give me a call - you will find my name and number on the WISA site.
Laurence (AKA Uncle Bulgaria) (laurence@cool-net.co.uk)
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 13:58:45 (PST)
It was good to see Ainsworth back but he obviously lacked match fitness. We will have to wait until he's got a few games in before we see if he has returned to what we all know he is capable of. All we want now is our defence back to strength and to be able to field a team with everybody in their best positions.
TW
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 13:39:02 (PST)
With regards to Neal Ardley I think he was a bit under the weather last week with a bit of a head cold so three games in a week may have been too much. Nice to see Mr Ainsworth back.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 13:21:50 (PST)
WD - I wasn't born there, just formative years and all that. Burnley were a tough side, good point about PNE being similar, we just didn't get the breaks at the finale. Where was Ardley - rested for the Boro match?
Nige (nigehiggs@yahoo.co.uk)
Wimbledon, - Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 13:09:36 (PST)
Wiltshire Don, I must admit I looked at Burnley as a bruising team but Preston were pretty much the same. But in the Preston match I thought for the first time this season we looked like we could stand up and dig in. That done we managed to win the game. Several times this season we lost points to inferior sides because we lacked our famous bottle. In the main we have a very 'small' side and we get knocked off the ball to easily. Technically we have some very good players but we could do with some beef to go with the skill. We've looked better with Francis back, as he does give us a little more height and weight in the middle.
TW
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 12:03:54 (PST)
I wondered how long it would take. See, you've lost the plot. You're just enjoying being "anti." This whole thing is, in particular, about Wimbledon Football Club moving to Milton Keynes and about the possible franchising of football in general. But no, certain people have turned it into an abusive game. I know who I am and who I want to be. I do not need others to tell me how to conduct my life. If you want to be led, fine. Just don't ask nor expect me to follow. Again I'll ask the question, where is this "don't work for WFC ," coming from. Tell me, that's if you know. If it's from WISA then stuff it, because there are double standards being used. Don't believe me, try asking for the truth and you may well be surprised.
TW
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 11:41:47 (PST)
TW, Take your point about Burnley. Sad isn't it, a football web site and you were the only person to respond to a footballing point I made.They certainly came to do a job and they did it very well and I suppose you could say professionally so good luck to them.However, I have a couple of mates who support WBA and Wolves and they voiced the same opinion as me. Nige, live around Trowbridge area not born in Wilts so you've got the better of me there. Sorry I suppose I am too rational but unfortunately all the passion in the world won't get the Nogs to cough up £x million.All you can hope is that the various campaigns make them feel a little bit uneasy but I wouldn't bank on it.Still we can live in hope.Agree with latest views ( again) about club employess, as I said in my earlier email today, leave them alone it's got very very boring but feel they should reply to Koppell's assertion about their views on Plough Lane. Those who continually have a go at them, it's a shame you can't direct you passion, committment in a more worthwhile direction.
wiltshire don
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 11:38:22 (PST)
TW you are the real target , YOU ARE SUPPORTING KOPPELL, FFS get real and get you head out of your arse
Angry
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 11:17:15 (PST)
Ice baby, get it right. I didn't say because I feel like it. I said "I want to." A difference you must agree. And whilst we are at it, where is this "don't work for WFC coming" from? If it's WISA then ask Laurence Lowndes (Uncle Bulgeria), who probably founded the association, to explain why a member of his family still works for the club. At least the people on this site admit their involvement. Now, you asked for reasons, you've been given mine, so leave it alone and concentrate on the real target.
TW
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 11:08:16 (PST)
Why dosn't everyone leave Koppells employees alone I for one know where their loyalties lie and no amount of hounding on this guestbook will make them resign, I for one respect their decision but come on guys do not keep saying that you are still true Wimbledon Supporters, ED no amount of blood money would make me work for Koppell I am very passionate about my club whom I have supported for many years and it is the same old record from Koppell "MK is the only option" and from the guys in the shop "I like talking to the fans" unfortunately Koppell has everyone infighting which is exactly what he wants but FFS have you not read the transcripts from the meeting with HBRA just one of his many acts of deceipt, how can you support ANYTHING that this man is associated with.
Clarified
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 11:05:16 (PST)
ED - the only stuck record of any consequence is Ckub Killer and his evil scheme. How many times do we have to hear "MK is the only option" or "we want to move to MK" or "we couldn’t exactly go and talk to our fans and say ‘look we’d like to take the club to Milton Keynes" or numerous other MK statements. I'm sure part of his enabling developments up there would include an MKFC superstore with a need for experienced, loyal and dedicated staff.
nige (nigehiggs@yahoo.co.uk)
Wimbledon, - Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 10:07:41 (PST)
well, the only reason them muppets can come up with for working in the shop is 'because I feel like it' so their case is not exactly strong.
Ice Baby
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 09:50:13 (PST)
"Real fans shouldn't be working for Koppell". Yawn. "You will help to kill our club". Yawn. We've heard all this before - come up with something new and original or shut the f**k up! We know you don't approve, (and more power to the people like TW and Paul for telling you where to poke it) so please, don't tell us again - it's like a bloody stuck record! By the way, TW has got a point - yes of course it would be sad, but wake up - it's not like it's armageddon is it?
Edinburgh Don
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 08:32:36 (PST)
TW, It is a shame that you do not show the same compassion about saving your club or is it as R Don stated on W&WW that you are scared to speak out against Koppell as you know that you will be sacked or alternativly is it as Koppell says and I quote "and the mere thought of coming back frightens the living daylights out of them" stated at the meeting of the HBRA
Confused
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 07:30:24 (PST)
Koppel, we will never give up.
Dr Wu
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 06:45:16 (PST)
Hey all you people on about those who still work for Wimbledon F. C. I'll tell you why. Because I bloody well want to. Not because you tell me otherwise. Because I will do what I want, when I want. My first priotities are my wife, my sons and my grandson. Then I think about the rest. And football is a hobby not my life. So I will enjoy what I want. Do you notice the I? That I means me being an individual. I am against MK totally but I will fight it my way. I will not be told by a gang of five. If WFC folded tomorow I would be saddended but still be breathing. I would still smell the flowers, still see the sky and most of all still love and have the love of my family. So get off the bandwagon, fight the cause not the person. Oh, and before you all write back in anger, take stock of real life. And another, see if I care.
TW
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 06:42:47 (PST)
club (shop) employees: have you heard/read what Koppel said? I suggest you go and tell him (since he is your boss) that you are insulted by what he said and that you are not at all terrified by the prospect of going back to PL and that you are actually in support of it. Or are you too scared to say that to him in case he gives you the sack?
The Real Hash
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 05:17:12 (PST)
Wilts, whereabouts? I'm a Salisbury boy meself. But you are giving up far too easily, if WFC steal Merton's local club, there won't be a Wimbledon any more, don't you see that? You are far too rational, this fight against the cancer in our midst that is the tenure of the Nogs and their yapping dog Koppel, is about passion, commitment and teamwork. If the peope who made our club what it was, had thought like that, we'd still be in the Southern League.
Nige (nigehiggs@yahoo.co.uk)
Cottenham Park not Shenley, Surrey not Bucks - Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 02:21:38 (PST)
Wiltshire Don, I didn't see anything about Burnley that we haven't seen from several other clubs already this season. They were strong, physical and proffesional. They came for a draw and got it. Perhaps you didn't see some of the shirt pulling our lads do? Or the foot over the opponent's instep of which Highes is a master. The second division (yes, I know it's called the first nowadays) has always been known for it's mix of styles and our players have just got to learn how to cope.
TW
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 02:17:27 (PST)
I know most people considered it a boring game. I enjoyed it, particularly the protest stuff, but there are far too few people who join in. The Dons' crowd's reaction is totally dictated by events on the pitch. When the ref makes some cock-up they go ballistic, but when the owners try to give them one where the sun don't shine, they say oh thank you so much, that'll be 3 official progs, 2 lurvlyu yellow away shirts and a couple of Back to MK Dome stickers please.
Nige (will the last one out please switch of the light)
Wimbledon not Milton Keynes, London not the Midlands - Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 02:15:39 (PST)
Were'nt Burnley just about the dirtiest, nastiest side who knew every sly trick in the book we've played this season.Yeah I know that's rich coming from a Wimbledon fan seeing as how we were at it for years.
Someone, nice post. Every word made sense and hightlighted our problem.Hawkster,thought we had moved on from having a go at people like Paul,Stuart. Sorry it all got very boring. But having said that a point from Nige's posting. If Koppel said, and I'm not doubting it for one minute..just haven't seen it,that the club's employee's are appalled at the thought of going back to Plough Lane. I think Paul etc you should come out and refute that as I assume it's not true. I'm afraid here perhaps silence means agreement.I have never criticised your right to make your own decision regarding where you work but if your name is being used in vain, a reply is needed. The posting from "Fan". Short and to the point but who were you referring to?
Given some of the recent comments, I think those who still think a return to Plough Lane is possible are living in cloud cuckoo land. The Nogs ain't goner spent the money and noone is going to spend £20 million ish to buy the club.Speaking to someone involved with Y & B yesterday a view held at the moment seems to be that arbitration goes in our favour, club then put into administration and becomes affordable for someone to buy. We then share we Kingston ( don't know if Kingston keen about that). OK capacity could only accomodate about a third of this mystical 18,000 we supposedly would get back at Plough Lane, but to me it seems about the only answer at this point in time.
wiltshire don
- Sunday, January 13, 2002 at 01:55:38 (PST)
Everybody, go onto ( www.weirdandwonderfulworld.com )go into news and read the transcript of the meeting of Koppel and Haydons Bridge Residents Association and look at your conscience and ask the following, am I in what I am doing, in anyway supporting Koppell to kill Wimbledon FC and if selling a 50p pen or badge or car sticker the answer has to be YES if arbitration go's against us on the 21st I hope that all who are supporting Koppel enjoy MK for the start of the 2002- 2003 season because that is what Koppell has already stated and you can with your head held high, tell all your familly and friends, YES I HELPED TO KILL WIMBLEDON FC,
Wibbly Don
- Saturday, January 12, 2002 at 13:42:09 (PST)
Charles Koppel, hey I'm trying to keep to the requested tone of this GB, claims that any solutions other than Milton Keynes "cannot be delivered". During his recent radio interview he also said that he had to make the move because he had to think of the best interests of the employees of the club. He goes on in the Haydons Bridge transcript to say that the employees of the club are appaled at the thought of a return to Plough Lane. I suggest any employee who is not of that view, should make their feelings known to their employer. With the greatest of respect that is.
Nige (nigehiggs@yahoo.co.uk)
Wimbledon, - Saturday, January 12, 2002 at 13:26:53 (PST)
Isn't it time those 'supporters' who work for WFC Ltd. woke up and smelt the coffee ? How do these people live with themselves ? Koppel doesnt support the club - never has, never will but these people claim to be fans. They are as bad as him, if not worse. Its time for them to decide where their loyalties lie. Time and patience is running out.
TheHawkster (TheHawkster@wisa.org.uk)
Tolworth, - Saturday, January 12, 2002 at 12:13:54 (PST)
Please help WISA today.
If you have a portable stereo, ghetto blaster type thing. Battery powered and with a CD player, WISA needs you to bring it to the game today. This is really important as today is the last 'home' game before the arbitration hearing.
If you're going to the owff meeting, bring them there, otherwise take them to the Thomas Farley before the match.
Peter Bowles (peter@wisa.org.uk)
Wimbledon, Wimbledon Wimbledon - Saturday, January 12, 2002 at 02:40:42 (PST)
Fash can't afford WFC for several reasons, a large investment is needed to buy Plough Lane and build a stadium, and the nogs will try to screw anyone as much as they have been by Sam. The Nogs won't invest in Plough Lane (even though, after 5 years it could all be paid for) because they've invested all the money they want to, and are looking to pull the plug asap. They can't sell the club with no assetts because it's pretty much worthless. They need it to have a ground. That's why MK is the answer for them.
CK has no future in football as far as I can see, no-one has any respect for him. He is in there to take the flack from us for the MK move.
We don't have many loony fans, but I am sure that we have enough to make his life a living hell if the club win arbitration.
Someone (not saying who.)
SW19, SW19 SW19 - Saturday, January 12, 2002 at 01:45:28 (PST)
Am I being cynical, why is Fash insisting that the ground must be include in any deal for his company to take over Northampton? Hmmmm. Now where have I heard that before?
TW
- Saturday, January 12, 2002 at 01:26:56 (PST)
10% of the people asked said they would go, but apparently a sample of 1005 is VERY respectable and accuracy cannot be increased much by increasing to the size of the sample. ICM were also VERY close with the general election result. So statistically it's fair to say that if we asked the 180,000 residents of Merton 18,000 would say that they would come and watch Wimbledon regularly.
Ricko (theangrybear@hotmail.com)
Tunbridge Wells, Kent UK of GB and NI - Friday, January 11, 2002 at 15:15:26 (PST)
Got 'em - they'd given me a .com, but it was a .co.uk. IDIOTS (sorry to use up your GB Paul!). Soz!
Rowley Birkin QC (uncle88uk@yahoo.co.uk)
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 15:00:01 (PST)
Thanks for your answers. Soz about the e-mail addy, will attempt to correct. I know that there are several different sides to this arguement, and I know there is no easy answer. But in so much as _I_ cannot be sure that we will not be renamed, can you be sure we will get planning permission. I'm not being hostile, but none of us have guarantees either way. Having followed the Safeway saga, I am aware that they did not have the site for 10 years (purchased end 96/97 season), but my inference was that it took 10 years for anyone to finally put anything to bed. Merton always said (and I've seen the studies (I know WISA have too)) 'come back with x, y and z sorted', then found something else wrong. I appreciate that £20 M has gone, but TBH, it doesn't surprise me, because of the SIZE of the WFC Ltd business. You take in 1st 11, Ressies, Youth teams, Womens' teams, boys and girls teams, coaches, managers, Admin staff, FITC, etc., etc., and we're big - can 7,000 average gates sustain all that? With no other source of income? I don't know, but it seems a huge undertaking to me. Comment about FITC tickets, well, my little cousin recieved some for Preston game through FITC course in Battersea Park and he also got some through his school, where FITC visited to coach. I refute the fact that someone says no-one bothers. I think we have a problem in that the current crop of 'target audience' are stuck 7-10 miles away from the FC they got the tickets for, and how do they get there (esp if Dad/Bro is a Fulham glory-hunter!!) on a match day. Also, I notice that all the hype over name/history changes are attributed to this Winkleman character. What the hell has he got to do with it?! (Yes I know he's part of this consortium). Is he a member of the FL or its panel? No. I reckon that IF (and I PRAY not) the arb goes against us (i.e. WITH the club), that conditions will be set. If not - has anyone spoken with Koppel about this? May be worth a conversation or three! Apologies for rambling again, trying to get things right in my head!
Rowley Birkin QC (my apologies - it's new and I will chase Yahoo, the thieving wotsits)
Oops, rambling thoughts again, - Friday, January 11, 2002 at 14:32:18 (PST)
WD - he didn't put in an offer for the club because as he said in an interview recently, when Laurence Lowne asked him why he wouldn't come back to us, he simply doesn't have enough money to invest in a 1st Division club.
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 13:38:46 (PST)
Hutch, thanks for your views.You are right about the Nogs, for rich successful business men they certainly made a complete hash of buying into the club.Wool pulled over their eyes by you know who or was it greed that made them rush into things.Only strengthens lots of people's views that they would get out tomorrow if they could and in truth who can blame them.A view circulating at the moment is that if they lose the arbitration decision they will put the club into administration. Not being an accountant or legal bod don't know where that would leave us.
No offence taken on the finance thing but I would say the financial problems,like so many clubs in the past, stemmed from going too far too quick. In the amateur days the Black family supported the club financially and then going through the leagues wasn't a problem financially for all the reasons we know about.The Premium League as with many other clubs was our financial downfall with no doubt our previous owner in the latter days not helping.
On a final note which partly relates to my unanswered question why the Nogs should put their hands in their pockets, if Wimbledon Football Club is a good investment, and surely all who advocate the Nogs spending £x millions must think it is, then why didn't John Fashanu's little group make a bid for the club? I can tell you why because John Fashan is too good a businessman.I would assume he sees more potential at Northampton than at Wimbledon and where is Northampton near???!!!!And no I'm not advocating MK just making an observation...and Brighton if you don't like it TOUGH.
wiltshire don
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 13:31:33 (PST)
ED - KFA£ has been used by loads of clubs infact I think everytime we have been to Blackburn the majority of the crowd has been either KFA£ or free tickets.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Friday, January 11, 2002 at 10:51:30 (PST)
The Real Hash - If you read what stu has said he praises the ICM poll but questions the idea that these people would come every other week. To be negative the poll doesn't say 18,000 would go to games it says 10% of the people asked would go. Lets hope that it is 18,000+ that turn up and that we get the chance to see it.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Friday, January 11, 2002 at 10:48:37 (PST)
Hutch - didn't know someone else had the KFA£ idea first - and you'll see that I agree with you on the point of it not being marketed properly. A couple of other people on here talking about why the Nogs didn't research properly - don't forget they ONLY bought in on the promise of Dublin, sold to them by you know who! They were basically conned by the devious git, now they want to recoup some of their obvious loss.
Edinburgh Don
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 10:26:21 (PST)
Stu- well if u aint gonna believe the results of the poll then there isnt much I can say. But you ask 'where does the money come in from???'.....how about the £24 million we have couped in transfers in the last 15 months.
The Real Hash
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 09:11:04 (PST)
Final Warning..Don't forget your cheque books (or cash) if you intend joining The Dons Trust either tonight at the meeting or tomorrow in The Thomas Farley.
cho (debcho@ukonline.co.uk)
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 08:54:19 (PST)
Stuart D - check your email!!
Hutch
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 08:03:22 (PST)
Dont know if anyone has seen this in the independent today but well worth a read. Click here to read
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Friday, January 11, 2002 at 07:42:16 (PST)
Hutch - If we presume that KFAQ is advertised in the areas that FITC works (and I know that anyone who goes on a FITC course gets 2 free tickets (including adult ticket)) it is the same area that WISA's ICM poll was carried out i.e.Boroughs of Merton, Wandsworth, Sutton, Kingston, Battersea. I know it's in the past now but I think that the "Patron Saint of Cardiff" has a fair bit to be responsible for about our chage in fortunes.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Friday, January 11, 2002 at 07:33:45 (PST)
Wiltshire - totally understand your points, and agree to a certain extent - but when they took over the club they should of looked in to all the eventualities and not assume we would be in the top flight forever, they should of known the size and potential (or lack of it) of our fan base and they should of studied the accounts of the last 10 years to see what had worked for WFC. Also I don't mean to be rude but WFC were in the top flight for just over 10 years out of a 100 year + history so saying we had always survived due to premier league income is wrong, the owners IMO have been short sighted for one and not realised what football is all about in this country - simply moving our club is our punishment for their lack of research IMO
Hutch
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 05:59:21 (PST)
I'll like to reply to some of the points made on recent emails.1)BW's reply to my last email.Quite obvious from your response you chose to ignore the facts. What I said is how it is from business point of view, like it or not.One of Peter Bowles latest emails said club run by bunch of people who don't care about the club, it's history or anything else about the club. That backs up my view about them spending THEIR money on something I'm sure they would be glad to see the back of.If you are so knowledgeable and critise want others post why didn't you answer my question as to giving the Nogs good reasons for investing THEIR money ( all this talk about where's the transfer money gone..into the club and who owns the club, so its their money AGAIN)into buying land ( yes buy Plough Lane..Safeway are a public company and I don't think their shareholders would appreciate them giving away/selling on the cheap, a company asset) and building a new ground.If they took it out, don't know if they can, no doubt they would see it as getting back some of the money they originally invested.2) Hutch. I think you answered your own question as to why we haven't been in such a bad financial state before ie we had bigger attendances and the Premium League money to keep us going. It would however be interesting to let an independent accountant have a look at the books so we would know one way or the other how things are and how much truth there is in ( or isn't) what Koppell tells us.3) Rowley Birkin. Not sure agree with all your points but yes you are right you will get slagged off ( and it's started).
wiltshire don
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 05:46:31 (PST)
Edinburgh Don - Kids for a quid was nicked from another club - it is a good idea but what is the point in having it if it is only advertised in the club shop, official site etc apparently our catchment area ids 4m people lets make it known to as many as possible of these 4m!
Hutch (it could all be too late though)
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 05:09:58 (PST)
Hutch, I am well aware of the money we got when we sold half our squad once we got relegated. But that was what it was, cutting the squad and wages because they new full well what would happen if we didnt. We are not the only team to sell most of thier top stars on relegation. But I would hope the money we recieved from the transfers is being used a back up on the money we are losing at the moment. The players we have brought, ie: Cooper, Shipperley, Darlington were good buys at a low transfer rate and we were well aware we would get at least their transfer value or more back if we sold them. Its the way Wimbledon have done thier business over the years. The Roberts incident was pretty obvious in my eyes, I remmeber seing the incident where he clearly had a few choice words and showed aggresion towards TB after being subsituted. That it seems was the straw that broke the camels back. I also would of though that Mild was on quite poor money in Sweden and we probaly didnt have to offer to much in terms of wages to beat what he was already on.
Stuart Deacons (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 05:09:25 (PST)
So, Brighton - what do you suggest we do right now? 'fiddling with details while Rome burns' or whatever you said - you really need to get off that high horse of yours, son. On marketing matters - the club always used to give away free tickets to schools in the local area (I think this stopped when the Nogs took over?) and they used to put them in the Sainsbury's end. Credit where it's due - Kids for £1 is a good idea (Reg's I believe?) but needs to be marketed more. They also need to target the surrounding boroughs, lots of our supporters come from places like Tooting (like I did) and Balham. The support is there to be had, but it will take time and a considerable amount of effort from club and supporters (bringing mates) alike. I was always taking mates to PL, but felt less enthusiastic about bringing them to Selhurst. If we were back at PL, I would definitely make an effort to get down more, as at the moment I only get to the odd 'away'.
Edinburgh Don
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 05:04:00 (PST)
Stuart - as I said we always got by in the past - sold a player at the end of the season, balanced the books and then got on with the next season - TB has brought in a transfer profit of £25m ish where is this? we have a great set of youngsters who are down the pecking order due to the size of our squad, why has TB been allowed to bring in so many players? the Roberts out Mild in for example is a disgrace. Roberts IMO was one of our best players at the start of the season he gets bombed and replaced with a full international within a week!!! does this sound like the actions of a club with no money? no it doesn't to me! to conclude, it seems as though the owners were stung when they bought the club (not the fans fault), did not plan for relegation (not the fans fault). have not adjusted properly since relegation (not the fans fault) and are now looking for a quick fix to sort their mess out. what do you think?
Hutch (WFC-a league club for 25 years only - not one of the big boys)
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 04:58:19 (PST)
Where does the money come from:
Perry, Thatcher, Herman, Hartson, Gayle, etc. over 20,000,000 pounds of players sold.
Not that it matters, after all, following Nielsen Koppel is clearly trying to run the club in to the ground.
Peter Bowles (peter@wisa.org.uk)
Wimbledon, Wimbledon Wimbledon - Friday, January 11, 2002 at 04:56:17 (PST)
Wiltshire - I am not Mrs Arnott - though I would be interested in finding other Dons fans up here, so if you're reading, Mrs A, the email adress is below! There is already another Ed Don up here, and we regulalry hold meetings of WFC supporters club (scottish branch)! So, you're right - maybe we have got a little hive of supporters up here - how about we share Tynecastle or Easter Rd if MK falls through?!
Edinburgh Don (edinburghdon@yahoo.co.uk)
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 04:55:35 (PST)
The Real Hash, I will say agian that I dont believe for one minute that we will get 18000 to our new ground. I will not be swayed on this, I am to long in the tooth to get excited by false hope. I was impressed with the WISA survey and the planning and money it must of taken to produce it . But IMO it is just talk by merton residents and the proof is when they are asked to pay to get in the turnstiles. The thing I was pleased with was that the survey was realeased this week and went straight into the Evening Standard to get further attention. Hutch - great debate about the attendances and FITC, I would pick up on one point though because you say it was bad mis management that we didint capitalise on the boom in the nineties. I think club did make an attemot and tha attendances were getting better and alot of kids were regulary coming on free tickets during the last year we were in the premiership but once you are relegated you then realise how many come tosee the other premiership sides!!! Also about the 800 free tickets and the money we lose per day. I can see with my own eyes that we must be losing a lot of money per week, its obvious and im no accountant. We have shit attendances, no premiership money and very little money coming in elsewhere. Where do you think money comes from???
Stuart Deacons (stuart@sdeacons.fsnet.co.uk)
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 04:46:35 (PST)
Hi............this too was emailed and bounced back
1) planning permission as far as I am aware will not be a problem on Plough Lane as it was built as a football stadium in the first place (not a supermarket which is why Safeways had problems)
2) we have always had a solid system whereby we sell one big name to balance the books (granted relegation has not helped) - the club might not have continued this under the new ownership, but we have a transfer profit of something like £25m since TB took over - where is this money now? we had a squad of about 30 players at the start of last January - why was TB allowed to sign Cooper, Shipperley, Darlington, Brown (on loan) Nielsen, Conolly, Nowland if we were in such dire financial trouble? - that is why people do not believe Koppell when he says we are losing so much money! why should the fans suffer as a result of this mis-management?
3) I know you don't agree with this viewpoint but I see the announcement of MK (if it happens) as the end of OUR club and the start of ANOTHER club whether it is renamed or not
4) Trains don't run directly from Wimbledon to Milton Keynes (wouldn't matter if they did) but they do run directly from Wimbledon to Haydons Road
5) don't know anything about attendances being fiddled but I will say that the Norwegians took over a club with a small fan base and have done little/nothing to improve this - because they are not interested in the fans it seems
6) we are not in a bad financial way because we have a small fanbase (see above - I don't think we are in a bad way financially) if we are in trouble it is because the owners have not realised that we are essentially a small club which has grown too fast and is now levelling off - they have the money and the experience to not only get us back where we belong but to also make WFC central to the community
let me know your thoughts
Hutch
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 04:40:03 (PST)
Just a final note (sorry for filling your GB paul).
I sent that to your email, Rowley, but all I got back was this....This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
Delivery to the following recipients failed.
uncle88uk@yahoo.com
Peter Bowles (peter@wisa.org.uk)
Wimbledon, Wimbledon Wimbledon - Friday, January 11, 2002 at 04:34:11 (PST)
This will probably not display properly, but here goes. (also sent by email)
A few points/questions I require an answer to.....
1) It took Safeway 10 years to get through 4 planning applications and they STILL got turned down. How long do you think it would take for OURS to go through (and don't think AJ can 'Help'.....
Safeway didn't buy the site until (I think) 1997. They certainly didn't start their planning process in 1991. Our planning application may not be bought in by the secretary of state. There is no change of use (as there was for Safeway) and the traffic impact will be minimal compared to a supermarket.
2) Given that timescale, with no guarantee that it will be accepted, do you think we'll survive
Yes, a football club is the fans. we're not attracting any more fans at the moment, but a promise of a return home will do nicely.
3) Can you SERIOUSLY take death over the continued existence of OUR football club? Re-naming would not be allowed in arb. I reckon.
You've no way to be sure, and YES. I would 100% rather see WFC die than have
to see it's rotting corpse being dragged about the divisions by a bunch of
people who care nothing about our history, traditions, who we are, or what
WFC is about.
4) I've held this belief before and I'll hold it again, if trains run
direct W'don to MK, what's stopping us? (NOT PRO MK BUT THINKING ABOUT THIS
LOGICALLY)
What's to stop us what??? from going? How long do you think they'll keep the
trains going? We were promissed trains direct to selhurst... they lasted
about two weeks.
5) where's all this fiddling of attendences coming from? AFAIK, we get tax
relief, so the more money we get, quite literally,the more money we get!!!!
Why do WFC qualify for tax relief?? they're not a charity.
6)MK or no MK, I will NOT LET THIS FOOTBALL CLUB DIE!
It's not about letting the club die, it's about stopping other people from
murdering it.
I won't be dragged into a pissing contest about how much I or anyone else
has/hasn't done for the club, but the last thing I want is for 112 years of
history be pissed away because we got the arse over where we play.
It's not about getting the arse. it's about where we belong. We are
Wimbledon, don't you think that the location is important. The owners don't
care about WFC, they care about their money.
If we are in such a bad financial way - and any two-bit accountant can see
that - and the continued operation of our FC depends on such a move - then I
COULD be swayed that way.
They're making it look bad. 21,000,000GBP in transfers out. WHERE IS THE
MONEY?
It's about time we faced facts, we could be dead by the end of this season
(and don't give me any nonsense about MK IS death - has anyone in any
organisation considered binding CK & co into a contract regarding the future
of our club?
There is no future in MK
Get WISA;s solicitors to look at it lads and lasses.
Are you happy to donate the funds to pay for them?
Peter Bowles (peter@wisa.org.uk)
Wimbledon, Wimbledon Wimbledon - Friday, January 11, 2002 at 04:31:48 (PST)
Paul - no I don't believe a word Koppell says so him saying we give out 800 tickets per match doees not in any way answer my question - Koppell is the best liar in Football do you believe him? Wiltshire just because Koppell says we are losing £X a day does not mean we are - why do people - especially dons fans believe a word this man says? - we never got into financial trouble in the past so why are we in it now?
Hutch (sorry Paul - don't mean to get frustrated over this but people do tend to believe what is in the papers - can i suggest Y and B)
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 04:19:51 (PST)
Guide='Guise' - sorry for typo
Ooops
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 03:26:06 (PST)
1) The name will be MK Dons (Winkleman) 2) The crest will be changed (Winkleman) 3) The colours will change (koppel TV2 interview - with the comment 'play under the 'guide' of Wimbledon' - look it up in a dictionary)
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Friday, January 11, 2002 at 03:25:34 (PST)
A few points/questions I require an answer to.....1) It took Safeway 10 years to get through 4 planning applications and they STILL got turned down. How long do you think it would take for OURS to go through (and don't think AJ can 'Help' 2) Given that timescale, with no guarantee that it will be accepted, do you think we'll survive 3) Can you SERIOUSLY take death over the continued existence of OUR football club? Re-naming would not be allowed in arb. I reckon. 4) I've held this belief before and I'll hold it again, if trains run direct W'don to MK, what's stopping us? (NOT PRO MK BUT THINKING ABOUT THIS LOGICALLY) 5) where's all this fiddling of attendences coming from? AFAIK, we get tax relief, so the more money we get, quite literally,the more money we get!!!! 6)MK or no MK, I will NOT LET THIS FOOTBALL CLUB DIE! I won't be dragged into a pissing contest about how much I or anyone else has/hasn't done for the club, but the last thing I want is for 112 years of history be pissed away because we got the arse over where we play. If we are in such a bad financial way - and any two-bit accountant can see that - and the continued operation of our FC depends on such a move - then I COULD be swayed that way. It's about time we faced facts, we could be dead by the end of this season (and don't give me any nonsense about MK IS death - has anyone in any organisation considered binding CK & co into a contract regarding the future of our club? Get WISA;s solicitors to look at it lads and lasses. Seriously, regardless of the two NOrweigens 'richest men in Norway thing' we need an out QUICK, lets do it on our terms. PL is a wonderful idea, but we ain't rich). Don't lets clog up Pauls GB with diatribe about my post - if you wish to slag me, e-mail me (YES it's real!). If you want to discuss this, go for it.
Rowley Birkin QC (uncle88uk@yahoo.com)
Rambling, so Paul, I apologise - utterly random thoughts entering brain, - Friday, January 11, 2002 at 01:58:43 (PST)
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