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Please remember that this is a family based site and so keep all laungauge at a decent level. Anything written that I do not like will be altered but the basis will be the same.The old guestbook can now be found at the following link. the old version shouldn't be used for adding any more. |
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In that case, Edinburgh, what do suggest we do?
Very Funny trying to post as me
Persons Name Not Given
- Sunday, November 11, 2001 at 06:57:03 (PST)
Ronan, by your own admission you don't come to this site very often. may I suggest that, before you go "popping" at people who do, you read a complete string of messages and not take any out of context. I have been a Wimbledon supporter for over forty years, I have seen good times and not so good. I have heard Chairmen/Owners tell the truth and distort the truth. I am totally against MK and have made my protests, written countless letters and approached many people but throughout that time I have acted true to myself. I have not carried out others wishes but neither have I denied them the right. All I was trying to get over was that Friday night's demonstartion did contain more energy than recent vocal support for the team. One thing coming over very clearly is this "I@m right, you're wrong" attitude by many of the more active protesters. Please, this country is a democracy and every individual is allowed to behave in their chosen manner.
TW
- Sunday, November 11, 2001 at 04:05:24 (PST)
Brighton (Oh WISA worshipper) - you've lost it. Find yourself a quiet room and listen to dolphin sounds or something. For someone who is supposedly 'in the know', how can you be So naive to think that Koppell is solely responsible for all this? As Wiltshire Don rightly said, Koppell is the monkey, it's the Organ grinders in Norway that are behind this. Fine, Koppell resigns; they'll just send another stooge, nothing will actually change!
Edinburgh Don
- Sunday, November 11, 2001 at 01:37:44 (PST)
Rick I thought that as Kenny is only one booking away from a ban he could still miss the away leg if he got booked last night. I know bookings are cleared for the finals but he did come on. To Brighton Womble I will respond to you later.
Paul Raymond (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 23:58:40 (PST)
I don't come here often :-) but time to speak.
Wiltshire Don - firstly - you 'a non-accountant brain' explains your comments. Ask an accountant (and I have) to examine the clubs (all four companies) accounts and you will see where these 'losses' come from. Loans across companies can be argued as losses when you examine individual accounts - but not when you see them as a whole.
TW - 'if all the energy put into tonights protest' - what a load of cack. The people who did last nights protest (totally spontaneously) are the same people who sing their hearts out for the lads - and although are no better wombles than the quiet block G people - show their heart on their sleeves. If you are in favour of MK - fair enough - but if not I ask you this question. If the club moves to MK and you are not happy with it, what will you do? Why not do that now while you still have a chance to change things? I say the same to you as I say the same to all players, directors, VP's and all the usual supporters - listen to both sides of the story, join WISA, and examine the plans for the SIX available sites we have in SW London - and you will see Koppel has lied continuously about searching for a ground where we belong. Rubbish to finance problems - we have given him solutions.
Bad placement of his 'pin and work outwards method' - perhaps he should have started looking at the pinhead. Whoever that may be.
Ronan (rgwarde@ukgateway.net)
- Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 17:36:15 (PST)
Listen, oh Paul Raymond/Club shop worshipers. You complaining about the protests, just you bloody remember, we are fighting for the life of our club. If you even stand outside the entrance to the Safeways/Alan Batsford stadium in 5 years time, a large part of the reason will be that Wimbledon supporters got mad. What the hell reason do you want to have a go at people for, you stupid, stupid people. Who the hell do you want to support in two years time, WFC or Milton Keynes FC. Unbelieveable you lot are, unbelieveable. And you, Paul, how you have the NERVE to continue working in the club shop, I do not understand. CHARLES KOPPEL IS KILLING OUR CLUB OUR CLUB FFS. AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE GIVING HIM, KUDOS. Frankly, anyone who excuses him now is siding with Koppel, and I don't care to hear the arguments, as usual! Paul, you're a disgrace, you no longer have any credibility, unless you choose to rediscover it, you coward.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 17:25:09 (PST)
Paul apparently the bookings in the play-offs are wiped out, only red cards will have any effect. So Kenny wasn't excluded from today's game for that reason.
Richard Chin (rick@superdons.co.uk)
Merton, - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 15:24:21 (PST)
sitting on ur hands and keeping quiet is NOT getting behind the team matey.
Junior Don
- Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 08:37:40 (PST)
Edinburgh Don the pub was the best place to watch last night's game: at least you could turn it off and enjoy a pint. Our lads looked disinterested. they make a pass but then don't move on to open a space or get ready to receive the ball back. I can't really understand what's not working but we lack that sparkle. We've got the talent but don't seem to have the motivation (it may have something to do with the demonstration). As for that protest! I think the morons have taken over. Even if they win,and the club returns to Merton, would you go to a match were the "supporters" don't support the team and refuse to let others enjoy the game. I would think many are a bit deaf this morning. If that amount of energy was put into getting behind the side our results may be a lot better. And as for stopping Sheffield Utd. going home, what was that all about? Protest against the board, yes, but what harm had the Shefffield players done?
TW
- Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 06:00:04 (PST)
A couple of points. One for Brighton.I hate to say it but last nights crowd summed up what I have been saying and its stating the obvious. Our support is the pitts.On an attendance of 4,900 where were your "missing" 3,100? It took me 3 hours driving to get to the game yesterday, it would take a fraction of that time for all these people who you think are simply waiting in the wings for us to return to Merton to have got to the game last night. If they exist it would be a great help if only a fraction of them turned up now with the state the finances are in.I just don't believe they exist, at least not in any signicant number to support a team in Div 1 let alone the Prem league. If you think they are real,perhaps someone should tell "them" if they don't put in an appearance soon there won't be a club to move back to Meron or anywhere else for that matter. I've seen a copy of the latest published accounts and they don't look very nice even to an non accountant brain. Too many figures in brackets for my liking.
For those who were there last night just a thought.Funny how the team suddenly went to pieces once the demonstrations started. Coincidence or what!!!! Demonstrate before the game, at half time and after the game BUT NOT DURING THE GAME.Around where I sit in the Holmesdale Road stand there are an awful lot of people getting very fed up with it and express the same view as me, support for the team during the game and keep everything else outside that 90 minutes. And one final thing.What's the point getting Koppel to resign. Surely he's just a figure head who would just be replaced by someone else. If he went the owners might replace him with one of their countrymen with a completely unpronounciable name. Now that would make the chanting very interesting!!!
wiltshire don
- Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 05:39:20 (PST)
Shocking behaviour from those so-called Wimbledon Fans last night. I'm a fan and I've always sat on my hands and kept quiet. I call it getting behind the team. Well, I am behind them for at least one half of every game
Block G, the Homesdale, Apathyville. Somewhere near Foolham.
- Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 05:24:45 (PST)
The mystery is not why the game wasn't cancelled, but why it was picked for Telly anyway as they must have had an audience of about 12! You can just imagine 'neutral' households all over the country:
"Coming down the pub, mate?", "Not so likely; Wimbledon V Sheffield United is on!" Maybe not then.
Edinburgh Don (edinburghdon@yahoo.co.uk)
- Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 04:04:27 (PST)
Witshire Don I believe the club did try to postpone to-nights game but got turned down. I wonder if it had anything to do with the game being scheduled for Pay T.V? But can we break our midweek hoodoo? I know some people say it isn't a midweek game but then it isn't a week-end game either, so I'm going to call it midweek and hope we win.
TW
- Friday, November 09, 2001 at 04:58:01 (PST)
Brighton, sorry but you do seem to have this attitude that everyone other than yourself doesn't know what they are talking about.Regarding crowds and I'm afraid I think this is a crucial issue regarding a new home, you have already moved your figure from 8,000 down to 7,500 to 7,800. We getting closer together but please, please share with me how you get to these figures when even averages published in the press show c7,000.I still think our true supporter base is around 5,000. Be interesting to see how many turn up tonight with presumably nil or few freebies and little away support. On a footballing issue ( now thats a surprise) why the hell are we forced to play tonight with 2 players on international duty. I know it normally has to be 3 but surely an exception could be made given the fact it's a world cup playoff. And it's not this week only unlikely the 2 missing will be back next week as 2nd leg I believe is next Thursday.And on top of that premier division sides get a day off regardless of whether they have any internationals called up or not. Why should I be surprised we know that the authorities don't think football exists outside the premier league
wiltshire don
- Friday, November 09, 2001 at 03:46:20 (PST)
No need for that language.
Mary Whitehouse
- Friday, November 09, 2001 at 03:06:38 (PST)
I promised not to comment on anything BW posted but, He doesn't stop. For commen sake, STOP!. BW You're driving us mad. Come on son Get A Life! We are all Wimbledon Supporters, we love the club. We will do anything and everthing for the Dons. But, you are driving us around the pole. Don't for one moment think you are the only person that supports the Dons. You're not. So either grow up or PISS OFF.
TW
- Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:59:23 (PST)
Brighton, I thought I said I've had enough of arguing with you? The subject has been changed. What are your comments on our need for a leader on the pitch?
Edinburgh Don
- Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:45:46 (PST)
Quite right, it doesn't entitle me to be rude, and I don't consider myself to be rude. I know for CERTAIN that what you said about the FL is false. Besides David Burns KEEPS saying it and that is WHY the club are going for arbitration; the club on one side and the FL, fans and footie in general on the other. Why is stating that considered somehow offensive? As I said before, I probably do know a little more about the events than you. That's just stating a fact and not sticking two fingers up. It's not 'I know everything and you know nothing'. I was one of the people who used to sit and ignore what WISA or anyone else said about Dublin, QPR or anything else, and I'm damned if I will allow it again. The issue is also that people throw rumours around and they turn out, most of the time, to be untrue and often result in deflecting people from the issues at hand. And that's not 'spin doctoring', media 'management' that's just making sure people get the full picture, not bits and pieces of vague truths.
If you do have anything useful, why don't you pass it in WISA's direction.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 08:45:14 (PST)
Bring a Friend Day (or Fans United Day)
Everyone who's planning to bring mates to the Fans United Day on Sunday 16th December, please mail me telling me who they support so that we can coordinate things: theangrybear@hotmail.com
Cheers
Ricko
Ricko (theangrybear@hotmail.com)
- Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 06:23:08 (PST)
By posting adverts for Y&B requesting donations, should you not be publishing accounts - or are they that bad?!
Bored of Y&B
- Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:35:08 (PST)
Dear all staff at Yellow and Blue how many adverts in one day do you want to put on this site? Will I be getting free advertising space in it? I dont mind the occassional message but about 3 in a week and 2 in one day is going a bit far!!
webmaster@itmustbedons.com (webmaster@itmustbedons.com)
Tooting, London England - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 12:37:51 (PST)
Yellow & Blue – CHRISTMAS AND NEW YEAR SPECIAL – Sponser a page for the reduced price of only £15. Please email either heather@yellowandblue.org or mark@yellowandblue.org for full details. Support your matchday programme – remember Remember Y&B is produced by the supporters for the supporters
Neil
- Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 09:06:07 (PST)
I tend to agree about kenny Cunnigham, a model proffesional but a little quiet on the pitch. We need someone who can motivate the players a bit more. Kenny leads by example but sometimes players need winding up.
TW
- Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 05:24:17 (PST)
Yellow & Blue needs you! To help ensure the continued success of Y&B it is important that more page sponsors come forward. Special rates are now available. Please email either heather@yellowandblue.org or mark@yellowandblue.org . For those of you who’ve already sponsored a page before, thanks, but please do it again. For those of you that haven’t, if you interested, please email now for full details before you forget. Remember Y&B is produced by the supporters for the supporters.
neil
- Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 05:18:04 (PST)
Cheers TW. I used Batty/Jones/Keane just as examples, I didn't necessarily mean a midfielder - just a leader of any sort. In the past we have had great captains such as Roy Law and Dave Beasant, then decent ones like Fash and Vinnie, we haven't see their sort of leadership on the pitch for a good while now. Kenny is a great player, but is he a good leader? He sometimes seems a bit too quiet.
Edinburgh Don
- Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 02:30:30 (PST)
Good for you Edinburgh Don, even people on the official site are getting fed up with certain people's dismissive arrogance. I've tried several times to change the subject and get supporters thoughts on football. We know we've got to fight the move but without the "game" there's no need to bother. It's like eating the same thing everyday - you get fed up and stop being hungry. I noticed your comments re: a batty/Jones type. I'm not sure that it's just that position. I feel generally we seem to be missing that oomph. You know that sort of certain something that makes fairly average sides into really good sides. We show it when we can easily beat some of the better sides then struggle against lesser teams. It's attitude and mind set or is it?
TW
- Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 14:10:00 (PST)
Brighton, that's just it. The 'I know everything, you know nothing' attitude we get from you. Fair enough you are on the WISA commitee, so you may well know much more about the 'whole shebang', but that doesn't mean you know it all, and doesn't entitle you to be rude. I passed on what I considered to be reliable and important information, in good faith. If you don't believe me, fine, that's up to you, but stop dismissing it until you know for CERTAIN that all of what I said is false. In the meantime, I've had enough of arguing with you, let's leave it before Paul gets p***ed off about people rucking on his site. (Sorry Paul)
Edinburgh Don
- Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 13:21:56 (PST)
ofcoarse not BW. I will try. I will fight. I will only give up when the first ball has been kicked in MK. What I meant was that with the current owners, we aint gonna get anywhere. We need new owners. People with a vision, people who understand football and people who understand us. BTW, since you are on the committee. I assume you would know.......are there any other sites in SW London/N Surrey that WISA know are viable??? I know you cant say which site it is and where but it would make me feel more comfortable if I knew that there were other sites (apart from PL and GHS). .
Junior Don
- Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 09:05:10 (PST)
Why do it in one when you can do it in three?! ;0)
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Monday, November 05, 2001 at 13:39:24 (PST)
JD, does that mean you don't bother trying?
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Monday, November 05, 2001 at 13:37:58 (PST)
We have an average of around 7 500-7 800. Why bother haggling over a few. FFS, this message board seems to be one negative statement.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Monday, November 05, 2001 at 13:37:26 (PST)
Edinburgh, the reason my info is far more reliable than yours is not because I have better sources, it's that I sit on the G/C of WISA and, as a result, do probably know more about the whole shebang. Is that so hard to take in? Or do you have your own version of the 'gospel'. ;0)
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Monday, November 05, 2001 at 13:34:38 (PST)
I too think it is highly unlikely that we will ever return home TBH, let alone PLough Lane. But that is nothing to do with PLough Lanes expense. The land is worth £18 million, indeed. But if we were to offer them free naming rights, sponsorship, metro safeway etc etc, it would take a chunk out of the price....I would have thought about £8 million. The stadium will only be 18,000 capacity to start with, and that would only cost about £17 million so the overall cost would be less than £30 million. Therefore my reasons for it not happening are nothing to do with cost. My reasons are the current owners. While these two faced, lying, slimy bastards are in charge of Wimbledon, we are never going to get anywhere. They are hell bent on taking us to MK, because they get a free stadium there and dont have to put a fingure in their pockets (despite BRG saying a year back that he had set aside £25 million for a new stadium...what a liar, prick). Since they are all such spoilt rich kids, they are going to sulk if they dont get their own way. AND SULK, AND SULK, AND SULK, AND SULK until they do. I am not saying MK is going to happen. What I am saying is that these twats in charge are not going to give up and eventually it will be too late. We cant go on like this forever and I certainly fear us going bust in the next 3,4, or 5 years. rant over.
Junior Don
- Monday, November 05, 2001 at 12:06:55 (PST)
The figure quoted below (£18M) seems realistic for the PL site. Safeway allegedly paid £10M for it 10 years ago, so take into account inflation and that since then it has gained PP for offices and homes bumping the value up further. We might even be getting a bargain at £18M!! They're not going to let us have it on the cheap out of the goodness of their hearts, but If an arrangement like Selhurst with the shop built into the stadium is on then we might just get somewhere; If the council still refuse PP for the store, we'll be stuffed. The sums of money involved in "Project Plough Lane" are being grossly underestimated and it's obvious that the Owners won't and the mooted 'supporters trust' can't afford it. Don't take this the wrong way - I would love to see WFC playing at a rebuilt PL, but I don't hold out much hope.
Edinburgh Don
- Monday, November 05, 2001 at 11:37:57 (PST)
Wassup BW? Someone disagrees with the gospel according to Brighton Womble so you go and get all uptight! Where I get my info is not as important as the info itself and only time will tell if it's true or not. We have listened to your arguments, but I've been looking at other sites as well as this one and it seems all you do is have a blast at people who don't agree with you. State your points, but please stop being so smug and dismissive of everyone else.
Edinburgh Don
- Monday, November 05, 2001 at 11:27:16 (PST)
To the point of Saweways and plough lane.the following;
1.Safeway own the land and have been requested to make it safe hence the pulling down of parts of the site.
2. to sell it they want £18.m???????????? sam sold it for £8m
3.Regaurdless of how we fell its now our History and we need to move on if we get this site back and have our 25.000 seat stadium on the site it would have been pulled down anyway.
4. the large stand was Clapton Orients and was moved when they were in troble in 50s-60s its older than most parts of the ground and is a safty hazard.
Lets get behind the Fans and bodys who want to see us in a new stadium it may never be Plough Lane but it wont be MK either.
davidmcknight (davidmcknight@aol.com)
- Sunday, November 04, 2001 at 15:28:26 (PST)
keep it up paul
David Mcknight (davidmcknight)
surrey, Mitcham UK - Sunday, November 04, 2001 at 15:18:18 (PST)
One bright note from the Grimsby game was another good performance (admitted short) from young McAnuff. But, any ideas on Aggy? On his recent appearances he seems a shadow of his former self or perhaps he's been told to change his style. Any else think this or notice he's somehow different?
TW
- Sunday, November 04, 2001 at 12:00:18 (PST)
Brighton. Sorry to hark on about crowds but where did you get your figure of 8,000 from. Nearer 7,000 and falling rapidly is more to the point. Just over 6,000 yesterday and a lot of those were freebies from the half term training days.
Wiltshire Don (goz.family@btinternet.com)
- Sunday, November 04, 2001 at 11:09:16 (PST)
Oh yes, have you checked the Wimbledon News? The demolition was the front page story FFS.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Sunday, November 04, 2001 at 08:58:02 (PST)
Yes. So where exactly does he get his information?
You all seem to ignore a great deal of what WISA attempts to explain and instead rely on rumours.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Sunday, November 04, 2001 at 08:56:40 (PST)
Edinburgh Don have a look at the official site message board. It seems Safeways are looking to demolish the old Plough Lane site. From your earlier postings you may well be nearer the mark than others(**?) who'd have us believe. What is it" if you want the truth find out yourself", or something like that. How about "don't view the world through rose coloured glasses." Am I being cynical AGAIN? Keep up your messages, Scotland knows more than we do.
TW
- Sunday, November 04, 2001 at 05:45:19 (PST)
Unfortunately, but maybe rightly so, the Mk thing seems to overide our performances on the pitch. Yesterday's game looked to me like two teams, at the end of a season, with nothing to win. I thought after we scored Grimsby might have done something, but no. Yes we got three points, but, I can't put up with that every week. Any other views?
TW
- Sunday, November 04, 2001 at 05:35:11 (PST)
Wombles,
Firstly, I take it that you're all coming along to the Fans
United Day on Sunday 16th December v Nottm Forest.
Secondly, tell ALL your mates who support other clubs about it.
If you're at work when you read this, tell the person sat next to
you now. We are getting in contact with other supporters clubs
etc but the most important way of getting people along is
'informal' contacts. People are more likely to come if they're
going with mates. So tell everyone. Invite all the people you
would to a Friday night at the pub. Or everyone you see tomorrow
night at the pub.
Thirdly, if they are not able to come, ask them what the most
popular websites/ fanzines/ supporters groups their club has.
Tell them to spread the message to them. Or get them to mail us
at theangrybear@hotmail.com or fansunited@wisa.org.uk with
contact details.
Fourthly, if you want to help organising or on the day drop us
a mail also.
Let's make this a success, people.
Ricko
Richard McGregor (theangrybear@hotmail.com)
- Saturday, November 03, 2001 at 14:27:07 (PST)
From what I've heard, what we really need is a Jones/Keane/Batty type out there to get stuck in!
Edinburgh Don
- Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 05:45:56 (PST)
Edinburgh, first game that I REMEMBER was October 1979(13th I think) v Swindon) aged seven, but possibly earlier.
No I don't think it's time for a change of manager, there's been too much change since the Nog's took charge.
Anyway, as far as the FL are concerned, they remain adamant in their opposition to MK. They are appointing one of the FA panel to oppose the club.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Wednesday, October 31, 2001 at 14:31:04 (PST)
Dear Y & B Supporter
Firstly, I would like to thank all of you for your support of Yellow & Blue since our launch at the end of August 2001. Whilst Wimbledon FC's results have been as inconsistent as ever, Yellow and Blue has gone from strength to strength, selling more than the official club programme.
As regular readers of Y & B , you will know that almost every page carries the opportunity for page sponsorship , at a cost of £ 25 per page per programme. Some of you have been generous enough to support the Yellow & Blue venture by sponsoring a page in the early editions. You will also know that we have some regular advertisers, including Merton Council themselves.
One of the intentions of Yellow & Blue has always been to make a contribution to the fighting fund of WISA - the Wimbledon Independant Supporters Association. In order to be make this contribution and support the campaign to get back to Plough Lane , further page sponsorships and advertising is needed, in each and every issue of Yellow and Blue to be published between now and the end of this season.
Therefore we need to get more page sponsors - only £ 25 per page for a 35 character message, or advertising - from
rates subject to negotiation. Please contact us no later than 10 days before each home match to get your advert or page sponsorship arranged - discounts are possible for putting sponsorship in more than one issue of Yellow and Blue.
To support Yellow and Blue through advertising and / or sponsorship , please contact me on mark@yellowandblue.org or + 07092 368 081.
I look forward to hearing from you shortly.
Thanks again for your support.
Kind Regards
Mark Lewis
Yellow and Blue Business Manager
www.yellowandblue.org
Tall Mark (jomark@lineone.net )
- Wednesday, October 31, 2001 at 09:31:01 (PST)
Edinburgh Don, I don't know if it's a change of manager/coaches that's needed. Perhaps a reapraisel of how we play our football and if some of the present players are really cut out for playing in a division that has always been the hardest from which to gain promotion (The old second division. Which the Nationwide is and always will be. Change as many titles as you like but at present Wimbledon is a second division club). We now have a Sports Physologist. Perhaps we talk too much about playing rather than actually "doing". I'm sure some of our players sit back and admire a pass they've just made when really they should be moving to open spaces for the player with the ball. But deep down I think some of our players lack bol***ks for a man's game.
TW
- Wednesday, October 31, 2001 at 09:11:49 (PST)
Brighton - you should give a damn if I've been supporting since the 1880s, because that would mean I probably founded the club and you should be eternally grateful to me!! Just as a matter of interest - how long have you been supporting WFC? I'm not going to take the p**s if it hasn't been as long as some of the others on here, I'm just curious. Listen mate, we obviously have opposing views on the situation we're in and the chances of us getting out of it. There are no rules that say we have to agree, and I think we've both got eachother to see a different viewpoint, but TW is right - time for a new subject. Is it time for a change in the dugout, and if so, who?
Edinburgh Don
- Tuesday, October 30, 2001 at 13:30:19 (PST)
TW, I wasn't be totally unreasonable by what said. Wiltshire, at the Valley, Charlton were getting cack crowds before they went to Smellhurst - barely better than ours in fact - and about the same at Smellhurst - similar distances away from our homes (I think). As for rubbish crowds at Plough Lane and your point about marketing; 1) we've been through massive changes in footie. Our crowds now average 8 000 in the 1st div at a ground nearly 10 miles away from our home with no marketing to sell the club and no effort to get us back home. In the old 2nd div, they were around the 4 000 mark (give or take a few hundred). 2) We seem to agree on club marketing. The only difference is that I believe the crowds would be bigger and you are not so sure. Does that mean we don't DISAGREE on something! ;0)
I, too, like many Dons, was born, more-or-less, into supporting the team and have little choice in the matter. I am, however, proud to support this great team and am totally determined to see it back in SW19. I know a lot of supporters - myself included - have been lied to over many years by many owners and are sick and tired of it. It has made people a little pessimistic and battle weary (if you like). Perhaps my ranting is often mistaken for having a pop, but I fear that the apathy and pessimism that I seem to experience from a lot of Dons drags the 'cause' down sometimes. What we all need is supporters - whether long-term or recent - to gather together, behind the commmon cause of returning our club to SW19, to its own ground. All the arguments we have now will fade into insignificance if we acheive that.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Monday, October 29, 2001 at 14:59:42 (PST)
Ok Brighton, You think I'm patronising. Hmmm, tried reading some of your own stuff. Get your head out off your own backside and smell some fresh air for a change. That's it, I've had my say, tried to engage you in something like intelligent message exchange. You have no intention of doing so. This may dissapoint you but I shall no longer pass any comment on message you write, whether it's valid or just another self rightous, smug and dismissive reply to others comments. Good luck with following our team.
TW
- Monday, October 29, 2001 at 14:10:38 (PST)
Brighton, I've given myself a new name which hopefully will give you some idea of how passionate I feel for the Dons. After all I don't spend 5 hours on a round trip for every home game just for fun!! You don't agree with me about getting better crowds back in Merton. You seem to be saying its not a very well researched point I am making. I would say 40 years of supporting the Dons is enough research. Do you remember the crowds we got just before we left PL and then we were in the old Ist Division? I do and also crowds before that. Not great were they? Where are all these new/dormant fans going to appear from if we move back to Merton? I'm sorry but I just can't see an increase in massive increase in crowds back in Merton. I would love to be proved wrong as nothing would please me more than playing back at somewhere like PL.Then again I can't see it being any better in MK more likely worse. Let's face it unless we get back in the Premier League the crowds we get now are what we are stuck with whether it be at SP, Merton or MK.You are right about marketing the club.As a starter perhaps someone should carry out a survey in Merton to see if there is any support there and if there is get some real marketing going to promote the club.
Junior Don's comments about Charlton. Sorry can't agree. I'm sure they got bigger attendances at the Valley than we got at PL before they left and I don't think they were away from home as long as we have been.So they always had a good supporter base to go back to. I really wish I had a solution or enough money to buy the club and take us back to where we belong. Sorry started dreaming there.
wiltshire don (goz.family@btinternet,com)
- Monday, October 29, 2001 at 13:56:35 (PST)
...and try and sound a little less patronising, mate.
Brighton Womble
- Monday, October 29, 2001 at 12:57:50 (PST)
No chance. The team, the gaffer, the whole job lot: none of it will be worth a turd if the club goes under. I want a club for the future, ta. Anyway; 1) How do you know how much each of these millionaires has? and 2) Are you prepared to stump up some cash to save our club along with everyone else? I never said that we should expect a few to pay for the club
I couldn't give a damn if Edinburgh was watching the club in the 1890's. How long does one have to have supported the club to talk with passion about it?
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Monday, October 29, 2001 at 12:55:53 (PST)
Brighton, just one more little bit of humour. Your 6 or 7 millionaires? Even if they gave the club every penny that still makes a shortfall of around 14 million plus running costs etc. Then we have a club with the poorest supporters. Smashing. Give me optimism over realism every time. Come on let's leave this one alone and get onto talking about football, which at the moment is all the team seem to be doing:Talking a good game!
TW
- Monday, October 29, 2001 at 12:26:38 (PST)
What's with you Brighton? I try to change the subject and back you go harping on again. have you something against any person who doesn't completely agree with you? Edinburgh Don isn't being pessamistic, he's just passing on information(which he received in good faith). As for the second division I know for a fact Edinburgh Don was watching the Dons in the Southern League. So lighten up young man and let's have your views on my earlier posting regarding the present team.
TW
- Monday, October 29, 2001 at 10:32:03 (PST)
Brighton: 'some bloke' is a long standing friend of mine who I trust a-lot more than people such as Barry Hearn. I don't want to seem like a miserable git, but you're not being realistic, mate. If there are these 6 or 7 millionaires in the Holmesdale, where are they? Why haven't we heard from them before? It's all well and good having the 2nd richest fans per head, but how many of them can/would be willing to pump their money into the club? I know that there is no way I would risk, say £1000 (using the figure quoted to Plalace fans to save their club) on WFC when I have my own family to look out for, and I know most other Dons fans will say the same.
Edinburgh Don
- Monday, October 29, 2001 at 05:15:10 (PST)
Edinburgh, a little less trusting of some bloke who works for a stadium company might be in order.
Money? 2nd Richest supporters in the country, a known 6/7 millionaires in the Homesdale Rd stand. I suggest a little less pessimism, it's doing my head in. If we listened to people like you too often, we'd never have got past the old div 2.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Sunday, October 28, 2001 at 14:37:09 (PST)
Just to get away from the MK subject, let's have some thoughts on the present team. I think we have some talented players who can at times play some very neat, skilful football. But, and here lies what in my view is the problem, no b****ks. How many times this season have we been in front only to lose out on the three points? We have so many times had players watching the game rather than playing. I know that often a team going two up early lose out. That's yesterday, but the Portsmouth match? For any team to be successful there has to be the passion and will to ensure winning. Sadly, this present team are lacking. Look at the games we've drawn or lost where technically the Dons have been the better side only to drop points by being unable to dig in and fight. This lot maybe fitter and faster than most of the Wimbledon players I've watched over the years but they can't match the "olduns" spirit.
TW
- Sunday, October 28, 2001 at 14:29:38 (PST)
Junior - be VERY careful before making analagies with other clubs. I like to think that we could 'do a Charlton' and I agree with you that it shows what can happen. However, what about the example of a local club to me, Livingston? Now, calm down Brighton, this is just a spot of 'devil's advocate' ;-) but how would you deal if their example was thrown to you? Edinburgh used to have a third club: Meadowbank Thistle. They were struggling around in the lower half of the Scottish league and their crowds were counted in hundreds. They were moved to a new town away from their home city about 6 years ago, their name changed of course, despite the insistance that some of the club's identity would remain, such as keeping the thistle as club crest. They made the SFA cup semis last year and currently sit 3rd in the Premier League with only the Old Firm playing better football this year. They are also selling out the nice new 10,000 (roughly) seat Almondvale Stadium. Fans of the defunct MTFC refuse to go, but their numbers are much fewer than their new fan base in the new town, so no-one really cares about them very much. Does this ring any (alarm) bells? It's a minefield, this football politics lark!
Edinburgh Don
- Sunday, October 28, 2001 at 13:27:38 (PST)
Brighton - please stop re-stating my posts as I'm sure our exchanges are boring enough to everyone else without edited 'highlights' being repeated, and I think Paul might get upset if his guestbook starts to take ages to load :-) I think you are being far too trusting of the FL, but let's leave that one there - we disagree, so that's that. But do you seriously think a supporters trust will raise enough money to give the club a real future? It's not just a question of buying the club, you've then got to run it, and with our small numbers of fans - there won't be enough in the pot.
Edinburgh Don
- Sunday, October 28, 2001 at 13:11:32 (PST)
what happens to a business that is not generating sufficient revenue?
It either goes to the wall or it's owners pull the plug to stop their losses
getting even worse.
1) No. You look at the solutions, properly, you consult with your
employees, customers and stakeholders and then make a rational,
well researched decision on that basis. Like the club have?
Don't make me laugh.
Our football club is nothing but another business venture to the Nogs
(Forget CK he only does what he is told from Oslo)
2) Yes, very true. He also has some 40% of his wealth tied up in WFC.
we need a new owner pretty sharpish, and who is going
to buy a first division club with a notoriously small following and
no stadium?
3) Ok, let's just fold then. Supporters trust, anyone? We have the
second richest fans in the country, second only now to Chelsea.
As for my pal,
obviously his company is very keen to keep an eye on all developments
as they stand to make a-lot of money, if there was any chance of a
back-track by the FL, don't you think they would know?
4) Do you honestly believe that, after all that has been said by the FL,
they will even dare to? At the meeting hosted to explore the idea
of forming a supporters trust (which, incidentally, we are), the chair
of supporters direct, and a man with a lot of knowledge and contacts
in the business of football, stated that it was his firm belief that
David Burns and the FL would not back down, as they have publicly stated.
Tell me, in all honesty, where does your friend get his info from?
A stadium may well be built in MK, but not with the Dons playing in it,
nor any other team that doesn't come from MK.
The rules are the rules and the club plays under them. It cannot abide by the
ones that suit it and claim special circumstances. That's that.
We have to fight against MK - but at the same time be wary that even if
we win, we then face another battle to make sure we have a football club at all.
5) That is the battle we are facing at the moment. We have already won on MK
and will win however many times we have to fight. Let's press for a
new ground at PL.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Sunday, October 28, 2001 at 11:25:55 (PST)
By that I mean our pathetic crowds. How the hell did we only have 5,800 on Wednesday.
Can someone tell me why?
1) Because we're a mid-table 1st divison club playing away from our home
We beat Gillingham on Saturday,we are
playing decent football and still get an abysmal crowd.
2) See above
If we had
better attendances would MK be an issue?
3) Yes.
Lets face it if we still had
anywhere near the 17,500 average attendance we ended up with in the PL
would the Norweigians be thinking of moving away?
4) Yes. They need to get rid of this millstone around their neck.
(And I reckon if anyone thinks we will get bigger crowds in Merton they should
think again).
5) On what basis? The basis that we would be playing in our home
borough? Not a very well researched point. Where's the proof that we
wouldn't?
Anyway a final thought, if it was your money would you spend £30m + to
build a stadium in Merton for the benefit of 4-5000 people?
6) No. But then I wouldn't pay £30 mill for a club worth only £10 mill.
Additionally, I would try to actually market the club, unlike the owners
WE'VE had.
Let's get real. Perhaps with bigger crowds we would stand a better
chance of getting back to Merton
7) And in Merton we would have bigger crowds. So where does the cycle
begin and where does it end? No ground, small crowds. Small crowds,
no ground. See?
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Sunday, October 28, 2001 at 11:13:38 (PST)
A few points. Firstly, I have no problem with Paul R working in the club shop, nor with him encouraging people to give money which will probably be used in a court case to take us to Milton keynes.....all I wanted to find out was his reasoning behind it, so that we could have a mature debate/discussion. I was not having a pop at him. i wouldnt dream of that. Secondly, someone below said that we will not get large crowds in Merton. I would ask him to think again and look at what happened to Charlton when they left Selhurst and went back to the Valley. Charlton are a very similar sized club to us, in terms of finance.....when they were at Selhurst they too were getting crowds of 5,6,7,8 K and they went back to the Valley, and BUMF, 20 k week in week out. The reason? It is simple. The people of Merton will see us as their local club. They do not see us as their local club now because we play in South-East London. The people of South-East London do no see us as their local club because we are called Wimbledon. Should we move back to Merton, we will be the local team, and therefore many people who already support other teams such as Tottenham or Arsenal, will see us as their "second team" (for example, Kingstonian are my second team). I know a couple of people who would get Wimbledon season tickets if we played in Merton, and the example of Charlton i enough to back up my arguments.
Junior Don
- Saturday, October 27, 2001 at 14:55:12 (PDT)
Brighton, I hear what you are saying, and I agree with you, mostly. No, it wasn't very bright of the Nogs to pay over the odds on the promise of Dublin, but what happens to a business that is not generating sufficient revenue? It either goes to the wall or it's owners pull the plug to stop their losses getting even worse. Our football club is nothing but another business venture to the Nogs (Forget CK he only does what he is told from Oslo), and if they do not get their way - we need a new owner pretty sharpish, and who is going to buy a first division club with a notoriously small following and no stadium? Someone else who is not very bright? As for my pal, obviously his company is very keen to keep an eye on all developments as they stand to make a-lot of money, if there was any chance of a back-track by the FL, don't you think they would know? We have to fight against MK - but at the same time be wary that even if we win, we then face another battle to make sure we have a football club at all.
Edinburgh Don
- Saturday, October 27, 2001 at 05:52:50 (PDT)
I've just been reading the message board for the first time.Everyone seems only too ready to have a go at anyone who doesn't have the same point of view about MK.I have been a Dons fan for 40 years and like everyone else I don't want to see us move to MK. But instead of organising demos why doesn't someone look at the real problem and try and do something about that!!! By that I mean our pathetic crowds. How the hell did we only have 5,800 on Wednesday. Can someone tell me why?. We beat Gillingham on Saturday,we are playing decent football and still get an abysmal crowd. If we had better attendances would MK be an issue? Lets face it if we still had anywhere near the 17,500 average attendance we ended up with in the PL would the Norweigians be thinking of moving away?(And I reckon if anyone thinks we will get bigger crowds in Merton they should think again). Well, thats my view for what its worth.Anyway a final thought, if it was your money would you spend £30m + to build a stadium in Merton for the benefit of 4-5000 people? Let's get real. Perhaps with bigger crowds we would stand a better chance of getting back to Merton
paul gosling (goz.family@btinternet.com)
- Friday, October 26, 2001 at 12:37:00 (PDT)
Just picking up on a few points: Junior Don without people like Paul, and there have been many, YOU would not have a football club to love and try to protect now. Lots of us are against the move, the same as we hated leaving Plough Lane, but we enjoy being involved with our club. How many people like their jobs but can't get on with the boss or company policy? And to others boycotting the club shop, you're cutting your nose of to spite your face. We're not that big a club that the shops supply a glorious revenue. In fact the replica kits are really provided as a service to the supporters. Imagine the outcry if the club were to discontinue sales because of the boycott,(my own opinion is that every loss in revenue only hardens Koppell's plea of poverty). So come on Don's supporters everywhere direct your energy at returning the club home and not at other geniune supporters who do not exactly match your own view. As someone once said,"I disagree with what you're saying but defend your right to speak." Remember this country is built on democracy, which is a point we need, together, to prove to Charlie Boy.
TW
- Friday, October 26, 2001 at 08:17:20 (PDT)
Brighton, I think we may have to agree to disagree. My information comes from a friend who works for a construction company involved recently in several Stadia projects, and yes, stand to be involved in building the MK ground.
So not the Football League or relevant authorities then? The views, opinions or feelings of a stadium designer do not represent the views of the football authorities. Of course, the consortium are going to promote the view – one the club will continue to advance – that MK is still an option – the only ‘realistic’ one (though the whole plan is so utterly unrealistic that if it were a rumour alone, you’d laugh at it). The club have signed a legally binding document to say that they will move to MK. The only way this would be invalid is if the move was not approved by the relevant authorities. The FL has already told Luton that, if they wanted to play at MK, they would have to give up their league place and start from the bottom of the football pyramid again.
If you do not consider what I have to say to be of any value, fine, that's your opinion to which you are of course entitled.
However, we are dealing with very rich and devious people here and I think they are being underestimated and you are being dismissive. I am not being purposefully pessimistic, and i have ALWAYS included the phrase "I hope I'm wrong on this one, but..." whenever I have posted about this. I would love to see WFC play in Merton - I would love to be proved completely wrong - I am just warning that the matter could be way out of our hands.
What you say is of value, but what you say simply seems to be based in fear of these ‘devious’ people. Are these the same devious people who were so devious that they deviously paid more than 3 times the value of the club based on a possible relocation to Dublin? Very clever indeed. Are these the same devious people who are so devious that they presented a totally un-researched plan to relocate, deviously citing ‘unique circumstances’ as the reason for wanting to take the club 70 miles north?
Not very devious and certainly not very bright. We overate these people – especially Koppel. It’s becoming clearer by the day that Koppel has backed himself into a corner and is desperate to get out of it.
As for the club workers - I have worked for WFC since I was 13 - out selling programmes at Plough Lane and then moved on to do a few other jobs for the club on matchdays (not always paid) right up until I moved last year. It annoys me that some of those criticising people like myself, TW and Paul are probably new supporters, who have never done anything for their club. Again, I recognise their right to an opinion, but do you not understand my annoyance when I heard of my former programme selling mates (who have been out in all weather to serve YOU) being abused and gobbed on?
How long does someone have to have supported the club before they can criticise club workers who continue to, in the eyes of a lot of supporters, support the owners, by remaining at the club?
I hate the idea of people being abused and utterly condemn those pathetic people who want to abuse and spit at programme sellers. Some of those programme sellers have actually been very supportive of Y&B.
The quandary that many supporters face is how can people continue to oppose the owners plans whilst remaining in the employ of the club? Those who choose to maintain this dubious stance will and should continue to be subject to reasonable enquiry as to their motives for doing so.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Friday, October 26, 2001 at 06:41:13 (PDT)
Brighton, I think we may have to agree to disagree. My information comes from a friend who works for a construction company involved recently in several Stadia projects, and yes, stand to be involved in building the MK ground. If you do not consider what I have to say to be of any value, fine, that's your opinion to which you are of course entitled. However, we are dealing with very rich and devious people here and I think they are being underestimated and you are being dismissive. I am not being purposefully pessimistic, and i have ALWAYS included the phrase "I hope I'm wrong on this one, but..." whenever I have posted about this. I would love to see WFC play in Merton - I would love to be proved completely wrong - I am just warning that the matter could be way out of our hands.
As for the club workers - I have worked for WFC since I was 13 - out selling programmes at Plough Lane and then moved on to do a few other jobs for the club on matchdays (not always paid) right up until I moved last year. It annoys me that some of those criticising people like myself, TW and Paul are probably new supporters, who have never done anything for their club. Again, I recognise their right to an opinion, but do you not understand my annoyance when I heard of my former programme selling mates (who have been out in all weather to serve YOU) being abused and gobbed on?
Edinburgh Don
- Friday, October 26, 2001 at 05:48:12 (PDT)
Edinburgh, just a question. How do get your 'information' and where?
All that you say about the FL is totally contradicted by other, may I say more reliable, sources. Or are you just a total pessimist?
As for the club shop stuff, why shouldn't people ask? The very reason they're asking is because of the club's current relationship with it's supporters and what actions demonstrate. Nothing wrong there, IMO.
Brighton Womble (brightonwomble@hotmail.com)
- Friday, October 26, 2001 at 04:43:18 (PDT)
Junior - we've been through all this before. Have you ever lifted a finger to work voluntarily for the club? People like Paul and TW (and myself in the past) have done so - so don't slag them. We have given up our time and put a-lot of effort into working to help our club. It is the individual's choice whether they continue to work for the club, just as it it yours to buy/not buy club merchandise.
Edinburgh Don
- Thursday, October 25, 2001 at 14:57:47 (PDT)
sorry Paul mate, but I find it absolutely beyond belief, that you ( a Wimbledon fan of God knows how many years) are encouraging people to buy the new club kit and merchandise. It really does amaze me and I would like to ask you why?
Junior Don
- Thursday, October 25, 2001 at 10:36:59 (PDT)
Vinnie Jones is being interviewed for FourFourTwo magazine's One on One feature on Tuesday 30th October. If you wish to send ask Vinnie anything, intelligent or humourous, then email your question to the editor as soon as possible. Thanks for your co-operation.
editor (442@haynet.com)
london, uk - Tuesday, October 23, 2001 at 05:05:48 (PDT)
Nice new look. Very posh! :)
Tudor (wombles@lockestates.com)
London, - Monday, October 22, 2001 at 05:59:55 (PDT)
Edinburgh Don - although I believe that the FL are being informed about everything WFC are up to via WISA. This includes the obvious disparity between Koppout's £7m loss this year and BRG's comments that we are in fact breaking even, and obviously the bus trip last week. If what you're saying is true, don't be surprised to see the FL themselves challenged in court...
REPD
Londinium, - Saturday, October 20, 2001 at 14:58:44 (PDT)
I don't think you should dismiss Koppell's court battle as 'pathetic'. Rumour has it that the Football League WILL allow the move next year. Koppell will present them with a case pleading that we are about to go bust and that ONLY a move to MK will save us. Under such pressure the FL will bend. They have blocked it for now, but I reckon that is only to appease the WFC fans in the short term and they have plenty of 'get out' strategies which they could use. I sincerely hope that what I've heard is merely rumour, but it has come from a good source. I have informed WISA but have been ignored. Only time will tell, but I warn you that we are being lied to from ALL sides.
Edinburgh Don
- Saturday, October 20, 2001 at 01:51:02 (PDT)
Sorry Paul mate.......but you certainly wont see me in the club shop. I aint gonna be buyin any new away kit.......I am not given any money to Koppel that he will use in his pathetic court battle to get the FL to change their mind. It just AINT GONNA HAPPEN. And I URGE ALL OTHER DONS FANS TO LISTEN TO WISA AND BOYCOTT THE CLUB SHOP.
Koppel Hater
- Friday, October 19, 2001 at 13:57:10 (PDT)
Paul, I can only add my comments to the previous. But, old sods like me have trouble with new things. All the same, well done.
TW
- Friday, October 12, 2001 at 11:32:12 (PDT)
forgot to say nice new layout!
Junior Don
- Friday, October 12, 2001 at 08:21:44 (PDT)
Like the layout, Paul. Well done - keep up the good work.
Sandy Lawrence (sandy.lawrence@virgin.net)
London, - Friday, October 12, 2001 at 03:15:26 (PDT)
Paul - seriously good development...nice having time on your hands then?
Flawed (flawed@the-dons.co.uk)
Wimbledon, - Thursday, October 11, 2001 at 11:35:38 (PDT)
Paul: I remember a while back you had a Dons Radio or something with "We are Wimbledon" on it....What happened to that? Thanks.
Junior Don
- Thursday, October 11, 2001 at 10:45:51 (PDT)
I am a regular user of I.M.B.D and always use it to connect to other sites espesially Weird and wonderful and sw.19's army. The new website looks great. Keep up the good work.
Andrew Rutledge (andrew.rutledge@talk21.com)
San Diego, CA U.S.A - Wednesday, October 10, 2001 at 18:42:06 (PDT)
Paul like the new look! The front page loads quickly and shows me what I want at a glance. Excellent work!
Rick (webmaster@superdons.co.uk)
London, - Wednesday, October 10, 2001 at 14:04:20 (PDT)
Nice new look Paul, well done.
Edinburgh Don
- Wednesday, October 10, 2001 at 10:54:36 (PDT)
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